The Vision: The Way We Were - Avengers 58 (Part 2)

Avengers #58 (November 1968)

“Even An Android Can Cry”

Roy Thomas - writer

John Buscema - artist

George Klein - inker

Part 2

Karen: So the $64 million dollar question is: is the Vision more human or more machine? I’ve always felt he was more human, based on not only Hank Pym’s description -that he was basically human in every way, except made of synthetic materials – but also the obvious displays of emotion he’s shown over the years, particularly when it came to his love for Wanda. I know we’ll be talking about Byrne’s mechanizing of Vizh in some later posts, but I think anyone who really read these early stories would see that the Vision is essentially (as Hank says) a man trapped in an artificial body. But somehow we got away from all that, really starting with Roger Stern’s Ultimate Vision storyline (issues 243-254 or thereabouts). Although Vision displays emotion there, we also see him exhibit more mechanical traits, as he mentally links with a computer, Isaac of Titan, and goes a bit mad. That theme, of being a mechanical being, has continued through all later versions of the character – even Kurt Busiek’s in volume three, and I thought Busiek got Vizh better than most.

Doug: I have always thought just the opposite, Karen! To me, his red skin, the “hollow voice” (always done convincingly with the square yellow word balloons), and the simple fact that he is a construct always put the machine before the man. I, as a youngster, always saw Vizh as a fish out of water when it came to dealing with his emotions. That he had emotions didn’t really bother me – that he displayed loyalty, anger, leadership, even angst – those seemed fine. But, throw in his pining for Wanda and I just thought that was weird. And then when they were married – I’m sorry, I can understand a lot about human love and relationships, but a human and an artificial construct is just too much for me to wrap my mind around.

Sharon: Okay, so you can accept the Vision has emotions…why exclude the emotion of love? I think that was the whole purpose of giving him the “brain patterns” of a human was to establish that the Vision had a human mind trapped in a synthetic body. So it was kind of expected that at some point, Vision would fall in love.

Sharon: And I think it’s Wanda who comes off as weird or maladjusted, when she (a couple of years later) meets and falls in love with the Vision. She very clearly knows he’s a synthozoid from the start. But it’s in character with how I’ve always seen her and how she was presented for much of the 1960s: cloistered and overly protected, a beautiful but very insecure, fragile and naïve woman who was not experienced with men (unlike, say, Jan or Natasha). In my eyes, the Vision represented a safe haven for Wanda; he was not like other men (to say the least!). I may be getting ahead of myself here, but I hope we will explore this topic in greater detail at a later date!

Doug: Well, Sharon, you went where I was gently trying NOT to go! While I wouldn’t exclude love from the range of the Vision’s emotions, it was the physical relationship between he and Wanda which I felt (still feel) is perverse. There – I said it! I guess, and there’s no way not to be crass about it, a relationship with the Vision would be somewhat akin (talking aside) to a relationship with an Inflatable Suzy! Ugh – I really didn’t want to go there…

Karen: Wow, I don’t see it that way at all! I mean, a blow-up doll isn’t sentient. It can’t feel anything. Doug, I’m confused how you can accept that Vizh has emotions and yet feel disgust over his need to love and be loved – surely one of the finest emotions a human can have? I guess I look on his artificialness as similar to a person with artificial limbs – except in his case, everything is artificial!

Doug: Karen, you just repeated my point – “everything is artificial”. I’d said just prior that while I can accept love as one of his emotions, my problem (I am beginning to sound like Pietro!) is in the physical relationship between Vizh and Wanda. I don’t think the analogy with a person who has a prosthesis works here. Maybe we are moving toward more of a theological discussion – What is a person? Plastic and wires aren’t human attributes – that does not mean that the Vision doesn’t have any human attributes, but it was after all told for years that he was cold and calculating with a computer mind. He was not a tabula rasa from the beginning but was instead imprinted with a defined set of beliefs, emotions, etc. He is an artificial construct, not composed of flesh and blood and therefore is, in the end, an object. I know that sounds cold… Would I accept him as a teammate? Yes, as Luke and Han accepted C-3PO and R2-D2 as teammates. And although more robotic than the Vision, I would say they loved and were loved by the rest of the cast. But I don’t think anyone wanted to sleep with them.

Karen: I want to save some of this for the posts we’ll do on what Byrne did to the Vision. But I’d argue there are big differences between the Vision and C-3PO (even bigger ones between him and R2-D2)! I see those two characters as being part of the team much the way the Batmobile is part of Batman’s ‘family’, or in a more generous way, the way Silver is part of the Lone Ranger’s team. They certainly are not considered equals by the Star Wars crew, and I think most of the Avengers have always treated Vizh as an equal. Or at least they did, back in the day.

Karen: As for Wanda and Vision’s relationship, I always thought it was analogous to mixed race relationships, which were much more frowned upon back even in the 70s.

Doug: Again, people are people – I would not argue from that point of view.

Sharon: Karen, I agree with you about the race angle; it was a subject that needed exploring and sadly, during that time pairing Wanda with the Vision was far less controversial than pairing her with, say, T’Challa would have been; Vizh-Wanda was clearly “fiction.” And later on, in a letter column in the early 70s, Steve Englehart likened Pietro’s role in the Wanda-Vizh love story to of Archie Bunker’s: a bigot.

Karen: Today’s Vision, lately of Young Avengers, and now of Mighty Avengers, does not have the same personality as our old Vizh. He is really the armor of Iron Lad (the future Kang), imbued with young Kang’s personality and the data files of the original Vision. Our Vision, the stalwart Avenger for decades, is still a pile of debris in a crate somewhere. I can’t understand why this great hero has been treated so poorly by Marvel. I can only hope that someone (Dan Slott, are you listening?) decides to champion his cause and bring him back.

Sharon: I agree, Karen; the current shabby treatment of the Vision is puzzling, to say the least. You know, in our previous entry for Avengers #57, I had questioned why Roy didn’t just have Natasha or Dane Whitman join the Avengers, if he (Roy) wanted to expand the ranks. After reading #58 it hit me that the Rascally One wanted a blank slate, a tabula rasa, a character that he could shape from the get go. The Vision belonged to Roy and no one else. The aforementioned last panel of #58 left no doubt that the Vision was being groomed to play a starring role in the Avengers. And slowly but surely he did. In about a year and half, after Hank had left the team and T’Challa had became a part-time Avenger, it was the Vision who became the de facto field leader (when the Big Three were not present of course). And as Karen mentioned in our previous entry, at some point the Vision even occupied the coveted corner box spot on the cover of the Avengers!

Doug: Despite our differences above, I would like to applaud Roy Thomas, John Buscema, et al. for giving us this magnificent character – how many comic characters can be discussed with this range of depth politically, biologically, emotionally, theologically, historically, and any other –ally you can come up with?! And we haven’t even gotten to John Byrne yet…

Karen: I don’t think I’ll ever forgive Byrne for what he did to the Vision.

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The Vision: The Way We Were - Avengers 58 (Part 1)

Avengers #58 (November 1968)
“Even An Android Can Cry”
Roy Thomas - writer
John Buscema - artist
George Klein - inker


Karen: Welcome to the second part of our look at the first appearance of the Vision. This issue delves into the Vision’s creation by Ultron, and indeed, the creation of Ultron as well. We also get the first big grouping of Avengers, including the Big Three, since Avengers Annual # 1, I believe.

Doug: I don’t have it right in front of me, but I recall Thor and Iron Man being on the cover (a GREAT Buscema cover with Goliath) of #51, where Goliath regains his growth powers. If I recall, their role inside was not nearly what it is in this issue. But you’re right – this is a wonderful grouping, lacking only Hercules, Wanda, Pietro, and the frequently-guesting Black Widow.

Sharon: By the this time, Wanda, Pietro and Hercules were no longer with the team…and as explained in #57, Natasha had taken up with SHIELD again. As for Cap, Thor and Iron Man, Roy Thomas tried to work them in as much as possible, despite Stan’s preference that they not be included in the Avengers (mostly because Stan didn’t want their Avengers escapades to conflict with what was going on in their own series). So the Big Three would pop up here and there…as Doug mentioned, Thor and Iron Man took part in the action in #51, and Cap showed up in #56 and Annual #2. In #58, the trio function as the elder statesmen.

Karen: I always thought it was odd that Stan wanted to keep the Big Three out of the book, since (ostensibly) they would be the biggest draws and likely to improve sales. Hey, perhaps this shows that, unlike the current heads of Marvel, money was not always the prime motivator of decisions!

Karen: Cap decides to test the Vision with a little impromptu combat, and Iron Man and Thor follow suit. I love how Hawkeye is the only one to figure out that Cap is simply testing the new applicant – the relationship between Cap and Hawkeye has to be one of my favorites in all of comics.

Doug: It’s a fun battle, and a great way to show off the Vision’s powers. Of course, we’d seen these powers on display in the previous issue, but certainly not in the context of pitched battle against two of the mightiest Avengers! And, I too, loved the smirk on ol’ Hawk’s face.

Karen: After much effort, the Vision is able to recall his ‘birth’ at the hands of Ultron. Ultron treats him cruelly, not even giving him a name. Unlike Steve Englehart’s later interpretation, here Ultron’s attitude towards the Vision is that of a master towards a slave, not a father (albeit a terrible one) towards his son. That definitely evolved later on.

Doug: I’ve personally always found this odd, and at times overbearing. Yes, I understand the whole Oedipal angle of it, and it was never better than in the “Bride of Ultron” 4-parter. I guess where it was most annoying was in the early pages of West Coast Avengers, when Ultron often mockingly referred to Dr. Pym as “Daddy”.

Doug: Additionally, am I correct in understanding that Ultron was Hank’s version of a synthozoid? It seems quite strange, then, that this mechanical construct would manifest himself as a robot rather than a humanoid. Sure, he claims to loathe Pym and humanity – why then did he create the Vision as a humanoid? Additionally again, is it a stretch to believe that this robot could basically create life from scratch (obviously we don’t yet know that the Vision is the Original Human Torch) in only the space of several months?

Karen: I would agree, Ultron doesn’t seem to fit the bill for a synthozoid, but there is that implication. Maybe he was simply an initial step? Of course exploring the Vision’s past lead to Pym trying to recall the details about his efforts to construct his own synthozoid – and he realized he couldn’t remember a thing! The Avengers head to Pym’s boarded –up lab and then the whole Ultron story is complete: Pym created Ultron, who turned the tables on him and erased the incident from his mind! While this sounds a little corny, it actually came across pretty well. We see the beginnings of Ultron’s Oedipal Complex in his complete contempt for Pym. This is also one of the events that lead to Pym’s later emotional/psychological issues.

Doug: Hank’s brain-train wrecks pretty quickly from here on out…

Sharon: In terms of the flashbacks, a couple of things bothered an old continuity geek like me. First, Hank mentions the fight with the Dragon Man that occurred-- in his words-- “the other day”…this would have placed these events just after #42 or so. But in the flashback he’s wearing his more recent red and blue costume instead of the yellow and blue one he’d sported back when they fought Dragon Man (and for some months thereafter).

Sharon: Then, when Iron Man tells the tale of Wonder Man, within IM’s narrative Cap refers to Giant-Man as “Hank.” But back then (Avengers #9), Giant-Man’s civilian identity was not known, and certainly not to Cap—because in Avengers #28 Cap’s surprised that “High Pockets” turns out to be Pym! Well, I guess these minor inconsistencies can be excused as “memory lapses”, since we’re not dealing with infallible, omniscient narrators here.

Karen: The final piece of the puzzle for the Vision is discovering that his brain patterns are based on those of Wonder Man (who was then believed to be dead). It’s a lot of information to take in –as Roy has him ponder, “I wonder – is it possible to be ‘basically human’?” One of these days (maybe soon, since I’m working on an Ultron article) I’d like to ask Roy why he chose to include the Wonder Man aspect in the Vision’s story? Was it really essential to giving him his ‘human bonafides’?

Sharon: That’s a very good question. Why connect him to Wonder Man, who was pretty much forgotten at that point? Wasn’t Ultron’s involvement exciting enough? Back in 1968 I’d only been reading the Avengers for about a year prior to this issue, so I had no previous knowledge of Wonder Man or the events in Avengers #9. So this development, which involved a long-ago minor character, seemed to come out of the blue. Later on, when I started collecting back issues and saw there’s been no mention of Wondy since #9, I felt cheated by #58 and the notion that these events had occurred off-panel.

Doug: Does anyone truly know what a “brain pattern” is? Has this ever been addressed. Because Vizh never had Simon Williams’ personality or memories. So what does it mean?

Sharon: Another good question. I think the vague notion of “brain patterns” was meant to establish that a human mind (not necessarily Simon’s personality or traits) had been grafted into the Vision’s synthetic brain.

Karen: I think Sharon is correct, although later on, Busiek tried to show that Vizh and Simon had some similar personality traits. But initially, I assume Roy meant for that to be a way to allow Vizh to have emotions and set up his internal conflicts. Of course many people have noted a similarity between the Vision and Mr. Spock, from Star Trek. Although I would submit that Vizh was more like the Tin Man from the Wizard of Oz – always bemoaning the fact that he can’t feel!

Sharon: Busiek wrote an unforgettable great scene in volume 3: Vizh and Simon discover their mutual love for Walt Kelly’s Pogo—among other things. The way it was presented, you could just “hear” their dialogue overlapping…wonderfully effective sequence.

Karen: Of course the Avengers decide to approve Vizh for membership, which gives us possibly the finest piece of artwork ever to appear in comics: the full-page shot of the Vision, overcome with emotion, holding his head as a single tear trickles down his plastic cheek. Buscema’s work has such quiet power to it, helped immensely by Klein’s inks and zip-a-tone background. It is one of the most memorable scenes in all of comics, in my opinion.

Doug: Not only is the panel to which you refer dynamite, but there are two other full team splashes included in this issue, either of which would be worthy of a poster or print of some sort.

Sharon: Both images were indeed magnificent. Buscema was at his best when drawing gatherings of characters- - just one of many reasons he was the perfect Avengers artist! But with the first picture—featuring the then-current Avengers along with prospective member Vision--I couldn’t help but wonder why Jan was wearing what seemed to be a winter ensemble in an issue that came out in September. She looked like a slim Mrs. Santa or a giant elf.

Sharon: The other full-page picture referred to was even more impressive; I loved seeing the gone but not forgotten Wanda, Pietro, and Hercules. They’d also just appeared in the recent Avengers Annual #2 pin-up and I was glad that Roy (and John!) remembered them. Natasha was included here, though, at the time of #58 she had never officially accepted membership; and I was even more puzzled by Spider-Man’s inclusion. Roy does explain (through Thor) that these were not only official Avengers but also heroes who’d fought alongside the Avengers (so where was the Black Knight? Was Thor unacquainted with the recent events of #54-55?). And given that this was supposed to be a visual embodiment of Thor’s words, I can see why the Swordsman wasn’t included, since his tenure—at that time-- had not exactly been honorable.

(to be continued)

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