Two Girls, A Guy, and Some Comics

Mike Esposito, 1927-2010

2010-10-24T18:06:00.027-05:00

Sad news. Mike Esposito--that rose by many other names(Mickey Demeo, Joe Gaudioso, Mickey Dee)--passed away this weekend. Probably best known as the inker half of the fabled Andru-Esposito team, Mike had a long career working for both DC and Marvel. Andru and Esposito's classic Wonder Woman even adorns a US postage stamp!

Thanks for the enjoyment you brought to countless fans over the years, Mike--you'll be missed.

An Andru-Esposito favorite of mine was the Kanigher-scripted series "Rose and the Thorn", the back-up feature in Lois Lane for a while starting in 1970. Esposito has said he and Ross Andru envisioned the Thorn as a cross between Wonder Woman and Black Canary.

And let's not forget that Esposito was John Buscema's inker on the epochal Avengers #60, the wedding of Janet Van Dyne and Hank Pym.

For more on Mike Esposito's life and career, check out the terrific book "Andru and Esposito: Partners for Life", by Esposito and Dan Best. If your local comic book store doesn't have it, head on over to ever-reliable Amazon.

Not Brand Echh

2010-10-05T19:38:00.007-05:00

Silver Age fanatics should check out Alter Ego #95 for some great recollections by Roy Thomas, Marie Severin and others about Marvel's Not Brand Echh, the great parody comic book ("Who says a comic book has to be good??").

Boy, there were sure some great artists who drew for NBE, including Severin, Jack Kirby,and Tom Sutton. And speaking of great art, take a look at this gorgeous page from NBE #12!

For more on Alter Ego #95, visit the TwoMorrows site at
http://twomorrows.com/

Kirby Covers! Top 5 On Sale in August 1961

2010-09-14T16:54:00.024-05:00

Welcome to our Kirby Cover Countdown series!

To kick things off we'll take a look at the top 5 Kirby covers on sale in August 1961. Only the most exacting criteria--artistic skill, ambitiousness of concept, historical context, coolness of creature--was used to determine the final rankings. Here's how the chips fell:

5. Amazing Adventures #6

4. Journey Into Mystery #73

3. Strange Tales #90

2. Tales of Suspense #23

1. Tales to Astonish #25

Yep, you guessed it: our esteemed covers here were on sale around the same time as Fantastic Four #1. So I ask you: on that hot summer day in early August 1961, would you have noticed FF #1 among this panoply of Kirby covers?

Or maybe you would have ignored the FF, SSerpo, and Orrgo altogether...and instead used your hard-earned dime to buy our Honorable Mention in the August 1961 sweepstakes: Kid Colt Outlaw #101! (Hey, that Kirby guy didn't only draw monsters...)

Happy Birthday Jack Kirby!

2010-08-26T17:55:00.009-05:00

August 28th, 2010 would have been King Kirby's 93rd birthday.

Happy Birthday Stan Lee!

2009-12-28T08:22:00.032-06:00

As I'm sure all True Believers know, December 22, 2009 is Stan Lee's 87th birthday. Comics as we know them would have taken a very different path if not for Mr. Stanley Martin Lieber, but then I don't need to tell you that--really, is there anything left to say about Mr. Stantastic that hasn't been said a kazillion times already?? (Okay, okay, so a lot of it was said by Stan himself--hey, he's not called The Man for nothing!)

Anyway, I'm getting a little verklempt, so let's all wish Stan a very Happy Birthday--hope it's a great one, Stan!

And for all you other Keepers of the Flames out there, here's wishing for a great 2010. It's been a blast, guys and dolls--and the best is yet to come!

More Legion Lore: Teenagers From the Future!

2009-08-11T18:20:00.015-05:00

Hi, guys and dolls...hope you're all sipping pina coladas and enjoying the beautiful summer so far. And let's imagine for the rest of said summer, you can buy only two more books about comics—well, it goes without saying one of them has to be Assembled! Volume 2, right? (Available on Amazon...check out our panel to the right for details!)

As for the second book, if you’re a Legion of Super-Heroes fan–and who isn’t?—do yourself a huge favor and grab a book called “Teenagers From the Future.” Like Assembled!, it's an anthology of essays, and also like Assembled! it's a great read: informative, enjoyable, and thought-provoking. I’m not exaggerating when I say that every single essay here is worth reading. You may not agree with the contributors' varied opinions and analyses, but you won't be bored--and you'll come away with an increased knowledge of the Legion's rich history.

Some background: Teenagers From the Future is a collection edited by Timothy Callahan, with a foreword by Matt Fraction. The essays are presented in chronological order according to the Legion’s publishing history, so you get a good overview of the Legion oeuvre: the Silver Age Legion, the progression to the 1970s, 80s, 90s and so on, up through today’s Legion (and yes, the reboots are included).

The topics range from fairly standard (but still interesting) such as the “The Death and Resurrection of Lightning Lad” and “Women in the Early Legion” to the more esoteric “The Legion’s Super-Science” and “Decades to Get It Right: Architecture and Utopia” to the provocative “Diversity an Evolution in the Reboot Legion” and “The Racial Politics in the Legion” to…well, you get the idea. And what Legion tome would be complete without a piece on the Legion’s splendiferous sartorial style—so we get “Fashions From the Future, or ‘I Swear, Computo Forced Me to Wear This!’ ” (Err...sure, Cosmic Boy!)

There's a plethora of commentary about Mort Weisinger, Jim Shooter, Paul Levitz, and Mark Waid…but there’s also attention paid to the Legion’s earliest scripters Edmond Hamilton and Jerry Siegel. A minor quibble: I would have liked to seen an essay focusing on E. Nelson Bridwell (hey, Timothy Callahan, if you’re reading this and need an extra essay or two for your next volume…)

The book includes a fair number of reproduced panels and covers throughout (in black and white, alas) and there's a handful of factual errors, but it’s a very captivating read and provides a good basic overview of those kids from the future. If your local comic shop doesn't carry Teenagers, head on over to ever-reliable Amazon and order a copy. Happy reading!

The Guardians of the Galaxy: Earth Shall Overcome!

2009-07-26T20:55:00.001-05:00

Marvel Super-Heroes #18, January 1969

Arnold Drake/Gene Colan-Mickey Demeo

I recently picked up the Marvel Premiere Hardcover, Guardians of the Galaxy: Earth Shall Overcome. I recalled the Guardians mainly from the pages of the Defenders, back in my early comics-buying days. When I saw that not only this collection was coming out, but its sequel (Guardians of the Galaxy: The Power of Starhawk), I was very excited to read them. I am a big fan of Marvel's recent strategy of getting not only important storylines from the Bronze Age back into print, but entire runs of short-lived series.

Since we tend to focus mainly on the Silver Age here at TGAGASC, I thought I'd stick to the first appearance of the Guardians from 1968 -- Marvel Super-Heroes #18 (cover-dated January 1969). The tale was authored by Arnold Drake and rendered by Gene Colan and Mike Esposito (under the latter's pen name of Mickey Demeo).

Arnold Drake, creator of the Doom Patrol and Deadman, was a longtime writer for DC Comics who fell out of favor with editorial toward the end of the 1960's. Shortly after seeing his workload dwindle to nothing, he moved over to Marvel Comics, where he created (with Colan) the Guardians. You can read more about Drake in a wonderful obituary penned by Mark Evanier at the following link:

http://www.newsfromme.com/archives/2007_03_12.html#013083

I'll be honest -- this story reads just like a 1960's DC science fiction yarn! Colan's pencils (and I am speaking of figural form, speed lines, etc.) somewhat lend themselves more to the DC style than to what Marvel was then producing. Saying that, however, other than one splash page, there is not a single panel in the story that has right angle corners! Colan was really pushing the envelope with panel lay-outs here. Although there are no characters or backgrounds that break the panel boundaries (as we'd see a little later from not only Colan but also from the likes of Neal Adams, et al.), Colan's style is somewhat unnerving to the unsuspecting reader. A Colan-art veteran, I was nonetheless taken aback by the frenetic pace of the storytelling -- it was as if Drake's words could not keep up with Gene the Dean's pictures!

Drake's characterization is pretty basic. The bad guys, an alien race known as the Badoon, are pretty typically malevolent. They posture, they say all the right (or wrong, I suppose) things, and are pretty menacing in speech and in their looks. The goal of the Badoon is to eradicate the galaxy of humanity. On the other hand, the good guys fall into pretty basic team-book dynamics. It's difficult at this point to tell any pecking order among the four white knights, but it is pretty clear that Yondu the archer will be toward the bottom. I really had to laugh at the total lack of political correctness in Yondu's speech patterns -- reading him here was to "hear" Jay Silverheels speaking as Tonto! It really was funny. Vance Astro is a little bit of a smart aleck, and nowhere near the Captain America-clone he will become in subsequent incarnations of the team. Martinex is basically written as he will be later -- serious, focused. Charlie-27 is the one character who seems really undefined. He is listed as a survivor of the Jupiter colony, with a mass 11x that of an Earthman. However, the way Colan draws his head is quite odd, as it seems almost to flow -- it certainly changes shapes throughout the story. And, one would think that in spite of his bulk and weight that Charlie-27 possesses super-speed. He is drawn on many pages either with an overabundance of speed lines, and even at times in sequential pictures as if moving faster than the eye could normally follow -- as if he were Quicksilver or the Flash! I never remembered Charlie-27 possessing super-speed in any other stories, and indeed I can find no online references to that power in regard to his character. So perhaps Drake/Colan wanted to tinker with this later...

And that "later" wouldn't come to pass anytime soon. The Guardians, after their one-page, cliffhanger first appearance, would be back-burnered until Steve Gerber chose to unshelve them in 1974. After that, they would appear somewhat regularly as guest-stars in Marvel Two-In-One and the Defenders (1975), before gaining their own series in the pages of Marvel Presents (1977).

If you're a fan of the Bronze Age, or of science fiction, or just of today's Guardians (which I admittedly know nothing of), then you should seek out this hardcover. For my money, I wouldn't plunk down any change just for Marvel Super-Heroes #18, but for the added content the collection was the way to go.

You've Lost That Loving Feeling...

2009-07-12T19:06:00.000-05:00

It's tough these days for a fan of the Silver/Bronze Age. Contemporary comics, while they may be prettier to look at -- the art is certainly more complex, and the color palette available boggles the mind -- don't have the overall substance that those stories of yore brought to the reader each month. While there are a few modern books I enjoy, I often find that it is those stories with sort of an "old school" feel that make me smile -- and for the prices the publishers want these days, it would take a little effort to smile! Current trends of decompressed storytelling, anatomically incorrect art, and meandering plots just leave me cold. So, what I'd like to do here is spend a few minutes recommending some books from the past 15-18 years that can bring you back to those good times.

Superman/Batman: Absolute Power. Jeph Loeb, Carlos Pacheco, and Jesus Merino

Reprinting Superman/Batman #14-18. Published 2005 and MSRP $12.99

A lot of people knock Jeph Loeb, and I would never say that modern knocking of him isn't justified -- one need only look upon the trainwreck that was Marvel's Ultimates, Volume III to see what this man wrought on Earth's Mightiest Heroes. Yuck! However, I have largely enjoyed much of his writing on Superman/Batman and this volume is perhaps my favorite in the series of trade paperbacks. It certainly doesn't hurt that the art by Carlos Pacheco is every bit as good as his masterpiece that was Avengers Forever. The back cover tells the gist of the story:

"The Earth wakes up one day to a brand-new world order -- one in which Superman and Batman rule with an iron fist. Humankind has a choice: obey or die. How did things get this way? And is anyone left who can stop them?"

Loeb pens a really fun tale. It's what back in the day would have been called an "imaginary story"; perhaps in the language of today it's an Elseworlds story. The synopsis above is the thread that runs through most of the book, but what a tour de force of DC history this book is! From the Legion of Super-Villains to Uncle Sam and the Freedom Fighters, from the Mike Grell-era Legion to Kamandi, from Sgt. Rock to the Haunted Tank and then on to the Adult Legion, Loeb romps through the 1970's in a really fun, fast-paced story. I highly recommend this as a wonderful nostalgia trip!

The Adventures of Captain America: Sentinel of Liberty. Fabien Nicieza, Kevin Maguire, Kevin West, Steve Carr, Terry Austin.

Four-issue prestige-format series, published in 1991-92; has not been collected in tpb format.

Can anyone out there tell me, with all of the CRAP that gets collected into a trade paperback, why this story still languishes in four prestige issues?? This book is wonderful!! I can't recall very many times in the past 20 years when I have enjoyed a book this much. First of all, I love Kevin Maguire's art -- I have since the Justice League's post-Crisis days. And Maguire's style fits Fabian Nicieza's story to a T. However, Maguire moves to "storyteller" credit in issues 3 and 4 as Kevin West and Steve Carr take over the penciling. Inks throughout are by Terry Austin, who gives the book a consistent look. Much of the appearance that modern readers would associate with today's Ultimate Captain America is here -- the pronounced chain mail and the helmet most notably.

If you are at all familiar with the serialized movie adventures of 1940's action heroes like Flash Gordon, you'll really take to this tale. Each book ends with a cliffhanger, and all of the intrigue of WWII, Hitler, and of course the Red Skull are here. Great stuff, and I'd imagine that through either the back issue bin or eBay, you won't have to pay much over the $5 cover price. Check it out!!

JLA: Liberty and Justice. Paul Dini and Alex Ross.

One-Shot, Treasury-sized. DC Comics, November 2003. MSRP $9.95 at the time of publication.

The dedication of this volume, one of many books in the Paul Dini/Alex Ross collaborations that began with Superman: Peace on Earth, is to 1970's Justice League of America artist Dick Dillin. This couldn't be more appropriate, as Dini and Ross weave a tale of the JLA of that era. This is a younger JLA; Aquaman has both hands, Barry Allen is the Flash, and there is no gray on Hal Jordan's temples. As such, it's a JLA bereft of some of the post-Crisis baggage and it is better for it. This story follows the original seven, but includes enough cameos and guest appearances to satisfy any fan of Bronze Age DC Comics. The basics of the story are found on the book's back cover:

"In JLA: Liberty and Justice, the League confronts a threat from space, but a much different menace from those they have faced before. This new danger arrives on our planet in the form of an alien disease -- a cellular composition unlike anything on Earth, deadly to all who come in contact with it. The virus spreads quickly, setting off a chain reaction of global fear and panic. Soon the Justice League themselves are under suspicion -- are they ultimately responsible for this alien danger? Before long, paranoia, distrust, and an ensuing wave of hysteria threaten to rip the world apart."

Great stuff --fast-paced writing, and Alex Ross' art is never hard on the eye. Appearances by Green Arrow, Hawkman, the Atom, Black Canary, and Plastic Man (among other cameos) really make this a fun read!

2009-07-05T20:09:00.000-05:00

Magneto: Testament
Historically Useful, or Travesty to Memory?

In my love for comics, specifically men in spandex (super-heroes, you know!), I rarely take the time to "get out of the box". Occasionally I'll try some sword and sorcery, or even some comedic material like Bone. But one genre of comics I usually seek out and make time for deals with another passion of mine, and that is study of the Holocaust. In my spare time, I am an educator with the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, and I travel the country (and even beyond at times) teaching teachers how to deliver this subject matter to secondary-aged students.

I use Art Spiegelman's Maus with my own freshmen-level classes, and I've cited that graphic novel as well as Will Eisner's The Plot (an extensive look at the writing and desemination of The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion) in my senior-level Social Injustice class. I just finished reading Magneto: Testament, and I want to recommend it to you. The edition I read is hardcover, runs $25 retail, and reprints the five issues of the mini-series that was published in 2008. It also includes historical endnotes and a teacher's guide. While I didn't wholeheartedly agree with all of the lesson suggestions, it would still be a welcome resource for many educators.

If for some reason you aren't up on your X-Men lore, or if you haven't seen any of the three X-films (and my main question would be -- why are you reading this blog if you are in the dark on the X-Men??), Magneto is the main bad guy in the mythos. He is a tragic hero, bent on making the world safe for those with mutant powers. He has been shown at times to be quite militant, and is opposed by Professor Charles Xavier and his X-Men; you might think of Malcolm X's means for achieving racial equality vs. Dr. Martin Luther King's means; you'll get the basic story. Make no mistake -- just above I stated that he is a "tragic hero". That's somewhat of a newer characterization, as throughout the Silver and Bronze Ages Magneto was one of the premier do-badders in the Marvel Universe. He left a body count, to be certain. But, around 30 years ago, Chris Claremont (and subsequent writers) decided that a way to explain Magneto's militancy in the mutant vs. non-mutant conflict was to set his origins in the Holocaust. Magneto: Testament is the definitive origin/backstory of the character.

While this graphic novel could be used in any high school class-room, and is a serious and straight-forward look at a German-Jewish family and their lives before and during the Holocaust, I'll recommend it, too, as a fine read for the comics enthusiast. The first thing the reader of this story might assume is that Magneto is going to use his powers against the Nazis as was shown in the first X-movie. However, as a boy in this tale, Magneto exhibits virtually no powers, so this truly is a Holocaust story and not a superhero story in any way. The author and artist (Greg Pak and Carmine Di Giandomenico) were edited by scholars at the Simon Wiesenthal Center; I can say that everything they wrote/drew is accurate to the best of my knowledge -- the Auschwitz I and II scenes are outstanding. I was able to travel to Warsaw and Krakow, Poland last October -- my journey included a tour of Auschwitz I and Auschwitz II-Birkenau. The author/editor of this graphic novel use the book's endnotes to offer specific support for many of the scenes in the story. I felt good that what had been presented was rooted in actual events, a danger that historical fiction often faces (and often loses, in my opinion). I did somewhat cringe, though, at a scene (panel, actually) that was right out of Schindler's List (when the women are on the train bound for Auschwitz).

The basic plot of the story follows young Max Eisenhardt (Magneto) as the Nazi noose around the collective necks of the Jews of Europe tightens. From the Nuremberg Laws of 1935 to Kristallnacht (November 9-10, 1938) to the invasion of Poland, and of the USSR (June 1941), Max is thrust into the middle of events he cannot control. Compounding his problems is his budding love for a young Roma (gypsy) girl named Magda. The tale is fast-moving, historically accurate, and a page-turner of excellent characterization and suspenseful story-telling.

Magneto: Testament is a much shorter read than Maus, and probably more accessible to youngsters than The Plot. It is graphically violent in spots, but then I would add that no student of the Holocaust would be surprised at any of the situations depicted. I'd rate the book PG-13 I suppose, but there is more than that implied at times. Of course, with as much violence as generally makes its way in between the pages of the standard 20-page comic these days, perhaps no one will be surprised. I'd offer, however, that "real" violence -- that based on historical fact and in real-world events -- carries a bit more weight, even shock value.

So, if you have time to waste someday at a Barnes and Noble or Borders... or if you will actually part with your hard-earned cash, I'd recommend picking up this collection. I wanted to also give you a head's up that this could prove to be an exciting new resource for secondary teachers.

Note: The trade paperback collection was solicited in Marvel's section of the June Previews.

Happy Fourth of July Everyone!

2009-07-04T10:37:00.001-05:00

Feel Good That You Bought It

2009-06-04T00:57:00.000-05:00

Stan’s Soapbox: The Collection

Over 14 Years and Over 46,000 Words of the Wit and Wisdom of Marvel Comics’ Stan Lee

Brian Cunningham, Managing Editor and Copy Chief

HERO Initiative

MSRP $14.99

Doug: This week we continue our off-and-on series of book reviews spotlighting various comics’ histories/artist profiles. Stan’s Soapbox: The Collection is just that – a chronological reprinting of Stan’s columns that ran on the Marvel Bullpen Bulletins pages from 1967-1980. The book is published by the HERO Initiative, which is a charitable organization benefitting aging comics creators who have fallen on hard times. Stan Lee has long been known to have a heart for those who went before him, and even those who were his contemporaries. It’s no surprise, then, that he loaned his name as well as a small slice of his work to this project.

Doug: As we’ve done in the past with our looks at the Marvel Chronicle and John Buscema: A Life in Sketches, we’ll give you the lowdown – good and bad – on the book. I say that with somewhat of a bad feeling; after all, the book is for charity – and a great cause at that in honor of so many men and women who’ve given comics lovers so much joy through the years.

Doug: Stan’s Soapbox is a fun trip down memory lane. For those of us who grew up in the late 1960’s or 1970’s, this book really takes the reader back to those times. On the back cover, Stan is referred to as “the P.T. Barnum of comics”, and that characterization certainly shines through over the time covered between these pages. Huckster, spin doctor, even philosopher – all sides of Stan are on display in his columns. And that’s the brightest part of the book – we see Stan as the world’s biggest Marvel booster. He connected with Marvel’s fans by writing to them – the reader felt as if Stan was speaking directly to them. I wanted to be a part of what Stan was telling me – I wanted to know the creators of whom he wrote, to own the books Stan was plugging, and to consider the social commentary of which Stan sometimes soliloquized. Stan Lee was the difference between Marvel Comics and DC Comics in the time period covered herein – where DC seemed sterile and afraid to take risks, Marvel continued to redefine the industry with its forays into different genres, formats, and media. And Stan was always at the front, letting us in on the scoop ahead of everyone else. Or so we thought…

Doug: And herein lays the main problem with the book – its organization by cover date.

Sharon: Yes, as I’ve noted offline, the issue of the cover dates bothers a stickler like me. Simply put, the dates ascribed to the Soapboxes aren’t entirely accurate. Some background: in the mid-1960s, Marvel comics that were on sale at the same time were either cover-dated 2 months ahead of the actual release month (Avengers, X-Men, Daredevil, FF, Thor, Sgt. Fury) or 3 months ahead (Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, Tales to Astonish, Tales of Suspense, Strange Tales). This tiered approach means that’s what’s labeled in the book as the July 1967 Soapbox would have appeared in the July 1967 Avengers, but not in the July 1967 Fantastic Four; instead, the book's "July 1967" Soapbox would have appeared in the August 1967 issue of FF. This may be confusing to the diehard fan that may want to check out the Soapboxes in the original issues of FF, Spidey, etc. To be fair, the provider of the Soapboxes (Charlie Novinskie) does state he'd scanned the Soapboxes from his very own Avengers collection (with some Spideys thrown in). Also, some Soapboxes are missing, such as the one that would have appeared in the June 1968 Avengers-X-Men-etc./July 1968 FF/Spidey and so on. I guess Charlie didn’t have a copy of Avengers #53 in his collection!

Doug: A word about the format of the book: Stan’s Soapbox is a very colorful, eye-grabbing book. Until about 2/3 of the way through. I wonder – did the budget start to run low? Because the first part of the book is filled with lots of color, period art, and even the actual yellow-boxed columns reprinted alongside the newly typeset material. The latter pages, while giving us the material promised, just become bland – it’s as if the extra effort to make it a homerun just stopped. Troubling…

Doug: A comment on the Soapboxes themselves: Stan often pitched upcoming products, some of which never materialized. A nice touch would have been to have some historical information, to see what happened to those ideas that never saw the light of day. In addition, I felt like additional commentary as far as market reports, etc. would have benefitted some of Stan’s points – the reader is often left just scratching the head. So instead of just reprints of Stan’s columns, we could have been given an in-depth look at one corner of Marvel Bronze Age marketing.

Doug: So what’s the conclusion? Should you buy this book? Let me say that I am not sorry that I own this.

Sharon: Neither am I. Despite the layout and the date issue I mentioned, and the fact that many of the photos and graphics are available elsewhere, this is still a worthwhile book for any Marvelite. And I’ve never seen the great photo of Lee and Kirby on page 19—I got a real kick out of seeing that!

Doug: As was stated at the top, it is for a charitable cause, and is a small way for me to say “thanks” to those who’ve given me so much four-color fun over the course of my 35+ years of reading comic books. It is handy as a source to read the columns, even though I have some of the Marvel DVD-ROMs and own a complete collection of all of the Bullpen Bulletins therein. We have also recommended on the right sidebar of the blog the Bullpen Bulletins webpage, located at http://www.costa.lunarpages.com/bp/bullpen.html. If you are close to a computer and want more of the total feel for Stan’s promotion then that is a wonderful resource to consult. But if you are strictly looking for some illumination of Stan’s thought processes, maybe that new nugget about Marvel history in the 1960’s-70’s, then you are going to be disappointed.

The More Things Change...: Cap's Kooky Quartet, Part Four

2009-05-27T12:00:00.000-05:00

Avengers 24 (January 1966)

“From the Ashes of Defeat”

Stan Lee – writer, Don Heck – penciller, Dick Ayers – inker

Karen: We’ve reached the fourth and final part of our look at Cap’s Kooky Quartet with this issue of Avengers. I’m not going to give everyone a blow by blow – basically, Kang’s men turn on him and he and the Avengers actually team up to save Princess Ravonna and her people. Yet another Stan Lee twist! But despite the initial head-shaking, it actually works well, with Cap demonstrating the fighting spirit that we’ve come to expect from him. His leadership seems to blossom in this issue – perhaps because the Avengers are actually in a war? – and he inspires the team, and Ravonna’s people, to fight.

Doug: I did like the bit from Kang’s warlords about Ravonna’s required death – that all conquered monarchs must be put to death to impede the prospects of any potential future rebellions. That was a great vehicle to deliver the main thrust of the plot.

Sharon: Wanda and Pietro sure seem completely content to follow Cap’s lead, almost mindlessly so. But I guess that’s what they were used to back then: following someone else’s orders, first Magneto, now Cap. At least Hawkeye—while acknowledging Cap’s gifts-- shows some spirit and independence. He’s starting to respect Cap but he doesn’t get all mushy over it.

Doug: I thought Wanda was the queen-waffler when she changed positions from “it’s hopeless” on the splash page to “Captain America’s words make me proud to be an Avenger” only a scene later. In regard to Stan finding people’s “voices”, did you think it was appropriate that Cap called Ravonna’s general “Bush Head”?

Karen: Cap peppers his speech with much more slang than we expect from him. Again, it’s not quite the Cap we all know. However, he does come across as a soldier, which works with the story. You can definitely feel the Cold War influence here, with Cap and others talking about showing Kang’s men “how free men fight”! For even more politically incorrect fun, one of Kang’s treacherous generals looks a lot like Ming the Merciless, with Asian features and a long drooping mustache! Ah the 60’s…the Commies were everywhere, even the far future!

Doug: Kang’s warlords looked to be dressed as traditional Japanese shoguns – Heck probably used some type of photo reference for inspiration. Funny what passed for political correctness in days gone by – and this was all still serious stuff. Showing this kind of thing wouldn’t become satirical until Archie Bunker rolled in quite a few years later.

Doug: What was the deal with Wanda not using her “hex power” (this is becoming more maddening the longer we discuss it) in the first fracas? She said she was saving it up for the next time?? I’m sorry, but things were getting a little tenuous at that point. You know, maybe Stan envisioned her as REALLY powerful and was afraid to end any battle too soon. I don’t know…

Sharon: We three agreed in our last post that, back then, Marvel usually wrote their energy-wielding characters as exhausting their powers, so it stands to reason there was a need to conserve their energies. Wanda keeping her hex power in reserve is in keeping with that reading.

Karen: It is sort of maddening; if nothing else, it gives one the impression that Wanda’s power is unreliable – which would make it pretty hard for Cap to try to integrate it into a fight.

Sharon: Yes. But later on (when Roy’s the writer) you get dialogue like Cap telling Wanda (in #44) “Wanda, it’s time you used your hex power.” And she obliges with no problem. Plus in #45 she tells Jan she’s spent “hours perfecting her spells” (ugh! You know how I feel about her power being characterized as “spells”…). So I guess the idea is that she was continuously working on her own to obtain a better level of control.

Karen: On another note though, in contrast with the incredibly over-powered heroes at DC at the time, it makes the characters seem more human, and perhaps more relatable. In fact, this whole group of characters would probably be the equivalent (or perhaps even the inferiors) of DC’s Teen Titans, power-wise! Cap is like Robin, Hawkeye like Speedy, Quicksilver like Kid Flash, and Wanda is “the girl” just as Wonder Girl was! So Marvel’s A-team at the time was on par with the kiddie team at DC!

Sharon: That particular quartet of the Titans appeared in 1969 when Speedy officially joined replacing Namor Jr.—I mean, Aqualad …by which time the Avengers’ Kooky Quartet had long ceased to exist. (Prior to his joining Speedy had only made a few sporadic appearances with Titans since 1966). Geez, you’d think if DC were trying to ape Marvel and create their own Kooky Quartet in the Avengers mold, DC could have been more, er, timely… (And of course I’m referring to how events played out back in the ‘60s and not to the retcons that have since established that Speedy was an original member of the Titans).

Sharon: But it’s a very good point, Karen, about the similarities with the two teams, though I don’t think Marvel considered the Avengers their A-team at that time (I think that title was held by the FF at the time…). And the Wanda/Wonder Girl comparison is apt: in both quartets, “the girl” was the most powerful member of the teams (even if in Wanda’s case her power’s potential was unexplored then because the Marvel writers seemingly didn’t know how to write Wanda’s powers).

Doug: Yes, great observations. And probably the only direct correlation one could draw, as I don’t recall the JLA ever being as depowered as this version of the Avengers. I guess to attempt to parallel the adults, we’d be talking Batman, Green Arrow, Flash, and Zatanna (yes, Sharon, I know you hate the comparison. J), huh? Certainly a strange combination of DC heroes, isn’t it? Which is funny, because I don’t have a problem seeing the meshing of either this group of Avengers or the Teen Titans line-up mentioned above.

Karen: Dick Ayers is the third inker in these four issues, and I would say I probably like his style least of all. There’s nothing terrible about it, but it just doesn’t excite me. It does seem like there’s more of Don Heck’s style coming through with Ayers than with either Wood or Romita.

Sharon: After seeing how Romita drew the women’s faces last issue, the difference in their appearance here is jarring—at least in the black and white Essentials I’m reading. Here, Wanda and Ravonna’s faces are rendered with very simple strokes. This issue contained a lot of battle scenes, though, and Dick (“Sgt. Fury”) Ayers is certainly up to the task of embellishing those!

Doug: I would concur with the above comments – Ayers is serviceable. Not bad, but certainly not memorable. His Cap seems somewhat pale to me – lots of blue without much texture.

Karen: What did you think of the sub-plot with Quicksilver, where he is rescued by a woman and hidden from Kang’s troops? It brought to mind years later, when again a weakened Pietro would be rescued by another woman – Crystal of the Inhumans! However, this sub-plot didn’t seem to go far - definitely not as far as Quicksilver would go with Crystal!

Sharon: Yes, it seemed like an intrusive development, as there was no payoff to this subplot—why was it Pietro, and not, say, Hawkeye, here? Just so we’d get some dialogue of Wanda worrying about her brother?

Karen: Exactly, there’s just no pay-off.

Doug: You know, in addition to your reference to the Johnny/Crystal/Quicksilver love triangle, I also thought this was reminiscent of Johnny Storm’s excursions to the Fifth Dimension (Strange Tales #103, FF #158-59) where he met up with a very Kang-like Xemu after falling for the beautiful Valeria. But you’re both right – this was somewhat out of place in the story, and perhaps served to remove Quicksilver from the battle? And another thing! After all of the future-dudes rip on the “primitives”, is Stan seriously going to ask me to believe that Pietro was healed by an “herb”??

Karen: I thought Ravonna falling for Kang was a bit much, even in a comic. Kang to me has just never seemed especially noble, particularly not after reading Kurt Busiek’s Kang saga in the third volume of Avengers.

Sharon: I know we’re supposed to feel that Kang is a “good guy” when he allies himself with the Avengers, but let’s face it—he does so for a purely selfish reason: his carnal love for one person, Ravonna. Is that supposed to be admirable?

Doug: Karen, Kang has never seemed as ruthless as Victor von Doom. Even though he’s supposed to be a conqueror par excellence, it has always seemed that the subjugation of the nation/world/time period was the goal, and not necessarily the holding of it. On the other hand, one need only look at Doom’s Latverian subjects and how they cow to him.

Karen: I don’t know Doug, I think Kang has always seemed, as Sharon says, selfish: his goal of conquering others seems more about vanity and ego than attaining power for any constructive purpose. And he always seemed every bit as ruthless as Doom – particularly in the afore-mentioned Busiek saga. Prior to that nonsense about Doom skinning his old flame and wearing her skin as armor (yes, I’m not making that up), I always felt Doom was portrayed as having a certain degree of honor and nobility. I think there was a feeling that if things had played out differently, Doom could have been a great man. I don’t get that feeling with Kang.

Doug: I don’t know that I implied that Kang wasn’t selfish. My main point was that I don’t feel he’s interested in any sort of permanent administration of conquered territories. It’s almost as if he’s similar to the Collector in that possession is the goal – what to do with it later is secondary. At this point in Marvel history Stan was exploring time and space travel and had begun to explore the multiple personas of Kang; how Kang established and maintained his various empires would be discussed later under other authors’ watches.

Doug: But you wanna know what else I wanna know? Is Kang’s skin blue or peach-colored? I guess I’ve always assumed that the glass on his helmet (do you notice how he refers to his “armor”, when his clothes are just that -- cloth?) is clear, so his skin is blue. But there’s a panel in this story that shows peach-colored skin around his eyes.

Karen: Oh yeah, the blue part is definitely his helmet. How it sticks to his face and moves is another question. I guess that’s 40th century technology for you. Hey, maybe that’s what Cap used for his mask in the previous issue!

Sharon: See, this is a drawback of reading the Essentials.

Karen: So the Avengers are re-united by the end of the story, but in the issues to follow, Cap would still have doubts about staying with the team, Hawkeye would still mouth off constantly, Wanda would still pine over Cap - we’re back to the status quo! I guess those couple of issues where the team was split was some of Stan’s well-known “illusion of change”, huh?

Sharon: And speaking of Smilin’ Stan: the in-team squabbling, Wanda mooning over Cap and Hawkeye’s witty repartee--these elements were seen as innovative for superhero comics, but when you look closely the bulk of Marvel’s Silver Age character “development” could really be seen as an extension of Stan’s writing from his 1940s/50s romance or humor or Millie the Model comics.

Karen: I’ll admit I haven’t read Stan’s prior work. So Sharon, are you saying that Stan was already writing in “Marvel style” before Fantastic Four #1? Stan always talks about the writing of that issue as if he decided to go in a radically different direction than anything he’d done before. Would you say that’s not exactly true?

Sharon: Ah, Karen, I’m so very glad you asked! The way I see it, an ingredient of Stan’s innovation was to bring certain elements from his romance/humor/teen comics, chiefly the “hip” character-based dialogue (and situations like love triangles) to his new line of superhero comics. Stan didn’t do this in the ‘50s when Timely/Atlas attempted to revive their superheroes…but as he’s said in many interviews, by 1961 he had nothing to lose so he probably felt freer to write the dialogue more to his liking, meaning in a breezier fashion akin to what he was already doing in the romance/humor/teen books. And this use of “hip” dialogue and romantic situations starting in the early 60s was in part what made Marvel’s superheroes seem so fresh and different from DC’s back then.

Doug: I’d argue that it’s difficult to give a summation of these character’s personalities after reading these four issues. Sure, you can ascertain that Hawkeye’s a loudmouth, but beyond that what do we see? Cap’s full of self-doubt, then portrayed as one of the finest leaders – so strong in fact that an army from the future defers to him immediately. Wanda is full of doubt herself, and frets/fawns over Quicksilver relentlessly. And Pietro? Hothead to goofball – how about the line near the end of the story where he utters, “It’s just that little ol’ fleet-footed fun boy – me!” Not exactly what I “hear” when I’m reading Quicksilver. None of these characterizations is how I think of these people. So maybe what we have, then, is a genesis of personalities from the pen of Mr. Lee, as he himself struggled to find a group dynamic.

Karen: Agreed, all of the characters are still in the process of becoming the personalities we recall. There are a number of instances where we get incongruous lines, such as the quote you gave from Pietro. That one is just jarring! But the foundations for the characters are there.

Sharon: Yes; Cap using the term “Bush-Head” that Doug mentioned earlier, Pietro’s way-too-casual speech here…I see these lapses as a by product of Stan stretching himself too thin, what with being the chief writer (dialoguer) for several comics.

Karen: As I mentioned in a previous post, this group of Avengers has not fared particularly well. Steve Rogers is (supposedly) dead and has been for nearly two years, Wanda went mad in Avengers Disassembled and caused the deaths of numerous Avengers, including Hawkeye, who’s now back and strangely saddled with the identity of Ronin, and Pietro has had many difficulties, to the point where he has become almost a villain. I’m not sure whose fate bothers me the most! I miss Cap terribly – I think (at least before the Civil War) he was the Marvel Universe’s moral center. Although I’ve enjoyed most of what Ed Brubaker has done with Bucky over in Captain America, I would prefer to see Steve back.

Sharon: I like Pietro’s complexity: he’s not charismatic (which is refreshing) but he’s fascinating because he’s neither completely good nor evil. I’ve always found him to be interesting; except perhaps during his first stint with the Avengers (yes, here!) when he was pretty one-dimensional (he’d had more of a spark earlier when he was in the X-Men comic). As for Wanda, I’ve always considered her to be mentally fragile. She seemed very immature in the early Avengers days and then in Avengers #49 and #53, and the related X-Men #43-45, she just seemed so lost. Her history of breakdowns doesn’t surprise me in the least. Naturally I didn’t expect (or want) the Avengers we know and love to be dissolved in Disassembled, but her actions there were in keeping with her character as I’ve seen it over the years. The Ronin issue doesn’t bother me either because Hawkeye has always had a penchant for changing identities, powers, and costumes--maybe not as much as Hank Pym, but it’s part of who Clint is: always trying to better himself. Now, as for Steve Rogers: I think it’s pretty ballsy of Marvel to have killed him off (though I have no doubt he’ll be back one day). But his absence is a story element in itself, and I think that’s one of the points.

Karen: I hated Disassembled and having Wanda go completely insane – we’ve already seen her have breakdowns or be twisted by evil entities, but this was too much. Perhaps the worst part was that it seemed to be done primarily so a new title could be launched. Hawkeye’s death was meaningless, and to have him running around now with ninja weapons makes absolutely no sense! Quicksilver was already a jerk before Brian Bendis got to him, so I guess his situation bothers me least.

Doug: I’m sure I’ve stated before that I no longer buy too many new comics, and I’ll be quite blunt – it’s largely (way largely) due to the very events you two have just discussed. I find it depressing that writers today cannot think of stories that exist within the parameters that have been set over the course of a 40-year history, but instead find it necessary to turn everything upside down. Not change with logic, but destroy. Clint Barton from Hawkeye to Goliath was fine in the face of Hank Pym’s metamorphosis to Yellowjacket; Clint Barton to ninja – uh, no.

Karen: Probably the only other Avenger to suffer as much as these four would be Hank Pym…and he would be returning to the team shortly after this series of issues we’ve just read!

Come Together: Cap's Kooky Quartet part 3

2009-05-19T16:00:00.000-05:00

Avengers #23 (December 1965)

“Once An Avenger”

Stan Lee – writer, Don Heck – penciller, John Romita – delineator

Karen: We’ve just made it past the half-way point in our look back at Cap’s Kooky Quartet. Here in issue 23, things really start cooking. You’ll recall that at the end of issue 22, Cap had left the team, disgusted with all the constant squabbling. We start this issue with the remaining Avengers discussing their loss. Again, the Scarlet Witch appears to have romantic feelings towards Cap. She thinks, “How I miss the sight of him working out in our private gymnasium! So confident…so handsome! To me, he was every inch an Avenger!”

Doug: Wanda was just another of Stan’s lovesick girls in a few panels – the tears, the longing glance toward her vision of Cap in the gym.

Sharon: To think that our sweet Wanda enjoyed leering at Cap as he went through his sweaty gyrations in the gym…. well, I’m glad the girl has a pulse! Anyway, the drawing of Wanda in that panel is one of the most beautiful I’ve ever seen.

Karen: The object of her affection has decided to seek out a job as a sparring partner for “the champ”, a boxer.

Doug: Did you find it odd that Cap would cut loose with that super-soldier strength on those guys? Would you say that it was a little irresponsible?

Karen: I’m sure Cap was still careful not to hurt anyone too badly. But he seems a bit feistier here than he would later on.

Karen: We see that Cap, too, feels pain over his decision to leave the team. Meanwhile, Kang the Conqueror, that megalomaniac from the future last seen in issue #11, has returned, ready to take vengeance on the Avengers. Realizing that “they are like a ship without a rudder” without Captain America, he reasons it is the perfect time to strike. He captures Hawkeye, Quicksilver, and the Scarlet Witch and whisks them off to the future. Although Wanda is able, at great effort, to free them, Kang manages to re-capture her and Hawkeye. Pietro’s great speed allows him to escape.

Doug: I’d like to interject here, and I’m going to get back on the time travel problems I voiced in our discussion of the Adult Legion stories. Kang obviously has a log of all history up to his era. Is it merely mischievousness that prompts him to attack certain worlds or time periods? While I would not dispute that his technology would be infinitely better than most places he would choose to conquer, he certainly has the knowledge to attack at just the right moment. How could he ever be truly defeated?

Doug: I loved the way Kang initially attacked the Avengers by landing what seemed to be an additional story on top of the mansion. Did you notice, too, that Kang referred to having the Avengers lost in a “labyrinth” later in the story – a motif we’ll see again in the Celestial Madonna arc, which we’ve previously discussed!

Doug: Did you notice that the force field employed by Kang on page 16 was the same as was depicted on the cover of his initial appearance, issue #8?

Sharon: It’s been said Heck used Kirby’s books as a primer or reference guide. Smart guy, that Heck. (I’m sure other Marvel artists during that time did the same.)

Karen: I thought their escape was a nice reminder of how Wanda was portrayed back in the old days – heck, how most Marvel heroines were portrayed – as weak, near-defenseless hanger-ons. After she uses her hex power she is almost exhausted.

Doug: And you’re right, Karen – the immense tiring-out after using one’s powers was a Marvel mainstay – Johnny Storm, Cyclops, etc.

Sharon: I agree with both of you; many “energy-wielding” characters of both genders often exhausted their powers, as did some characters with enhanced bodily attributes like Reed, Angel and Quicksilver. This gave Marvel the opportunity to inject some “vulnerability”—no Kryptonite needed! The only exceptions seemed to be non-powered people like Hawkeye (who depended on gadgets) and, at the other end of the spectrum, the truly powerful strongmen like Thor and Ben Grimm.

Doug: What did you think of Wanda saying a spell when using her hex in the glass confinement? I thought it channeled Dr. Strange, or even Zatanna (although Wanda spoke her words forward).

Sharon: LOL, Doug, I think you’re channeling me, as this is a point I have made countless times, both here in our humble blog--as recently as in our entry on Avengers #21—and on the Avengers Assemble boards. So you can probably guess what I “think of” Wanda acting as if her power is to cast spells: it is wrong! Wanda does not cast spells! She is not a sorceress!! (Especially not back then.) She is not the equivalent of Dr. Strange/Zatanna/Enchantress/Miss Harkness/Clea!

Sharon: Now, of course the writer here (Stan) could argue that we the readers should attribute this “spell invocation” to the limited viewpoint of the character herself…we can overlook this inaccuracy as the character (Wanda) not being all knowing about her power. And Wanda would continue to occasionally refer to her power as “spells” in some other issues in the Silver Age, so perhaps that’s how she characterized her power. But that’s really stretching it. Bottom line, I see it as sloppiness on the part of the writer--first Stan, and for the later Silver Age issues in which this occurs, Roy’s.

Karen: Cap has heard about the Avengers’ abduction and returns to the mansion. Kang discovers this and teleports him to the future too, but the beautiful Princess Ravonna, whom Kang desires, interferes and Cap winds up outside Kang’s clutches. He and Pietro meet and after expressing their happiness at seeing each other again, go after Kang.

Karen: I have to say something here about the art and the women’s faces in this issue. The hand of Jazzy Johnny Romita is highly evident when it comes to both Wanda and Princess Ravonna. Both have that typical Romita girl look – clean, lush art much like he would later be associated with on Spider-Man. In fact, Princess Ravonna could almost be Mary-Jane’s sister! Although the clunky head-gear she’s wearing is a disaster – is that really what the glamorous women of ‘the future’ will be wearing?

Sharon: I agree that Romita really shines when it comes to the womens’ faces; Wanda looks gorgeous while retaining a voluptuous look, and Ravonna is absolutely ravishing in a sleeker, more modern way. The women’s sharp facial architecture (cheekbones, chins) is Heck’s work, but the strong yet feminine facial features (including Ravonna’s delicate cleft in her chin) are Romita’s. And it’s not only the women: Romita makes the unmasked Steve Rogers look very classically handsome, and Quicksilver also looks more attractive than usual.

Doug: Speaking of clunky headgear, I always think there’s a bit of a disconnect in the way Wanda’s head/face is depicted in this era of Avengerdom. When looking at her from the front, her headpiece seems to stick out to the sides, yet when seeing a side view, it would appear to be tight to her head.

Sharon: It was difficult to draw, to say the least (Kirby’s fanciful costumes aren’t known for being practical or realistic); and it’s probably why Heck finally said to “heck” with it and changed Wanda’s headgear to a tiara-like piece in #36.

Doug: Karen, I couldn’t agree more about the impact of Romita on this issue. I noticed how much better Heck’s pencils looked right from the splash page; Jazzy Johnny’s faces are beautifully on display throughout the issue.

Sharon: It’s no surprise that the women look so good; before taking on this Avengers assignment (his first for Marvel, I believe) Romita had spent several years as one of DC’s top romance book artists, so he was a pro at drawing attractive people, especially women. Romita had previously worked with Stan during the waning Timely/Atlas days, before the Atlas implosion; he then went to DC and became their principal romance artist; but when the romance work dried up at DC for various reasons, Romita accepted Stan’s offer to do some work for Marvel. The second time’s the charm, I guess--Romita ended up on staff and in many ways became Stan’s right hand man during the Marvel era.

Karen: And as an aside, I have been looking at both the Avengers DVD-ROM and the Marvel Masterworks edition with these stories – and Wanda’s hair is colored auburn in the Masterworks!

Sharon: That’s disappointing; I think reprints should be as faithful as possible to the original material, though I understand that the Masterworks coloring was done by following a more current color guide (and most people consider Wanda’s haircolor to be the auburn).

Doug: I still think the raven-haired Wanda is a strange look. Not a bad look – just not used to it, as I always think of her as having the auburn hair.

Sharon: With me it’s the opposite—I go for the black hair since that’s how Wanda appeared when I first saw her (Avengers #45). Though I’m used to it by now and I know Wanda’s black hair only lasted for a mere 3 years of her 40-plus years existence, there’s still that part of me that thinks her auburn hair looks wrong! Just goes to show how powerful and long-lasting first impressions are.

Karen: Cap and Quicksilver go after Kang but he is able to defeat them with his scientific weaponry. Kang demands that Princess Ravonna agree to marry him, or he will level her kingdom. She asks her father what she must do. Just as it looks like she is about to accede to Kang’s demands, Hawkeye and Wanda arrive, having freed themselves. Cap and Pietro are also recovered and the whole team is reunited, ready to take on Kang! Sensing potential defeat, Kang orders his armies to attack the city, leaving us poor readers to wait ‘til next issue!

Karen: I thought this was a better-written issue than last issue. Stan seemed to make more of an effort to capture the individual voices of the four Avengers. I thought it was funny that Hawkeye jumped on Wanda and Pietro for quoting Cap, and then he himself does it later! “Rats! Now you got me doing it!” It’s obvious despite all of his wisecracks about Cap that deep-down Hawkeye respects him. It’s interesting to see the ways Cap has influenced all of them.

Doug: Did you think that although Pietro had pined for the leadership of the team, that he and Wanda quickly deferred to Hawkeye? I thought Clint showed some of his potential in this issue. And I would wholeheartedly agree with you, Karen, that Stan’s dialogue was solid – he wrote the characters as I hear them.

Karen: Yes, it almost seemed like Hawkeye slipped into that leadership role without even trying. The three of them did work well together, but I would expect that sort of bonding, given the circumstances of their arrival to the team. When we wrap up next issue, I’d like to talk to both of you about the fates of this quartet of Avengers…time has not been kind to them.

Sharon: Yes—so many twists and turns, often tragic—better than a soap opera! To be continued next time, as Karen says…

Karen: I also feel like Stan was successful in showing that this team, despite lacking the power of the original, showed great determination and courage, and truly deserved to be called Avengers. There was also a sense of vitality to this issue that I enjoyed.

Doug: Yes, Kang gave them a sign of respect in the middle of the story when he commented that despite their relative powerlessness in comparison to their forebears, “I almost regret that they have… no chance!”

The Long and Winding Road: Cap's Kooky Quartet, part 2

2009-05-12T13:00:00.000-05:00

Avengers 22 (November 1965)

“The Road Back!”

Stan Lee –writer, Don Heck – penciller, Wally Wood – inker

Karen: The second part of our Kooky Quartet of Avengers reviews picks up right at the end of last issue. The team has been ordered to dissolve by the city council. Cap wants to go after Power Man to discover how the team was framed. But the three younger Avengers seem to have thrown in the towel. They are prepared to disband. This really riles Cap, who says, “All right then –take off—all of you! I never could stomach a bunch of quitters!” When Wanda tells Cap “A man should be able to accept defeat gracefully,” Cap says disgustedly, “Lady, how did you ever become an Avenger?”

Sharon: The sight of Wanda spouting platitudes and wagging her finger—she seems especially obtuse and clueless here.

Karen: This of course tweaks off Pietro, and there’s a brief skirmish between he and Cap. The artists do a very nice job of demonstrating Quicksilver’s speed here. It really seems possible that he could beat Cap!

Sharon: I always liked Heck’s way of depicting Pietro’s speed (it’s similar to how Kirby usually rendered Pietro’s speed in the earlier X-Men issues).

Karen: It’s funny how a bunch of lines somehow manages to get across the idea of speed so great, the image is blurred. But it works. And this was before all the computer-enhanced gimmickry of today!

Doug: As I said last in last issue’s comments, I get tired of all of the constant in-fighting during this period of Avengers history. Yes, I know what Stan was going for, and even if annoying it is 100x better than some of the storytelling that was going on at the Distinguished Competition. But it just gets stale. I also wonder about another matter we’ve previously discussed: Marvel time vs. real time. Because if this is only the sixth issue in the Kooky Quartet’s history, it’s somewhat likely that they would have been on the job less than a month in the real world! There is an awful lot of bickering, etc. coming from new employees!!

Sharon: It’s in keeping with the Fantastic Four model I mentioned in our last entry. The unceasing bickering here is reminiscent of the early issues of the FF, in which that team was far from solid, what with the Thing and/or the Torch complaining (and deserting the team, or threatening to). Also, here, in #22, we see the seeds planted for a future respect between Hawkeye and Cap, as Hawkeye takes the initiative and steps in to restrain Pietro; and Cap gives thanks where it’s due.

Karen: It may be tiresome to us reading it now, but back in 1965, it was revolutionary. I’m sure many readers found it both shocking and refreshing that not all the team members got along. I know when I’ve read Justice League tales from about the same time, they seemed like the blandest group of heroes ever! If not for their costumes, I would never have been able to tell Flash from Batman or Green Lantern. It may have been a quick way to provide conflict and characterization, but it worked.

Karen: As they all go their separate ways, Cap feels ashamed that the team has fallen apart on his watch. It’s odd to see Cap so insecure and uncertain as he is here.

Doug: Agreed. It had seemed that Stan had gone away from the self-doubting, even self-loathing Steve Rogers and had replaced him with the strong leader we’ve known and loved.

Sharon: It certainly is a different Cap than later on. He’d expressed doubts about his leadership since #16 and what’s more, he didn’t seem that keen on being a full-time Avenger; remember how ecstatic he was a few issues earlier when he thought SHIELD wanted him?

Karen: So I guess we can say that Cap also evolved into the great leader we think of him as today, much as the rest of the quartet evolved too.

Karen: The other three erstwhile Avengers attempt to get jobs – which I thought was a typical Stan Lee ‘real world’ element. While one might expect them to be out stopping crime, the reality is, they’ve gotta eat! They try to get on TV shows (Wanda even tells one producer she can sing!) but it’s no go. The Avengers’ reputation is so tarnished nobody wants them. Enter the Ringmaster. Knowing that the threesome must be desperate, he and his Circus of Crime contact the three and offer them jobs at the circus. Of course, he actually plans to use them to commit robberies.

Sharon: What I don’t understand is: why did Pietro and Wanda stick with Hawkeye (as evidenced by Wanda’s line: “Perhaps Hawkeye will get a lead!”)? There was certainly no love lost between the two men, and Wanda had barely noticed Hawkeye.

Doug: As I was reading this issue, I almost forgot that what I’d come here for was the conclusion of the Power Man/Enchantress saga! This was like getting two stories for the price of one!

Karen: Is it just me, or was the Circus of Crime one of the lamest groups ever? The only early Marvel group that I think was even less interesting was the Enforcers, over in Spider-Man. I also found it odd that no mention was made of Hawkeye’s carnival background, as shown in his origin in Tales of Suspense 57.

Sharon: Ha--maybe that’s what convinced the trio the job offer was legit, since, after all, one of them had experience. And Pietro had expressed a desire to work in a circus in an earlier issue...I can see why our ambitious heroes thought this job opportunity was “too good to be true!” (rolls eyes…)

Doug: Agreed on the Circus of Crime. They are pretty lame. However, and maybe we’ll get to these issues later (although after suffering with the Vision for six weeks, I’m not sure I’m up for our other downtrodden Avenger), the height of Circus glory was definitely the cover of Avengers #60 – the wedding of Hank and Jan! Phenomenal John Buscema cover and interiors. The python was very menacing!

Karen: In any case, when the three young ex-Avengers discover what’s going on, they make quick work of the Ringmaster and his stooges. Again, Quicksilver’s speed seems so much more formidable here than it would in many later stories. His comments about slow-moving “Homo sapiens” also remind the reader that Pietro did spend a good amount of time in the presence of Magneto. Some of that superior attitude seems to have rubbed off. Of course, it got worse as he got older.

Sharon: Why would Pietro assume his foe was a human (Homo sapiens), and not a mutant (Homo superior)? I mean, maybe Cannonball had a big, mutated head underneath his helmet.

Doug: The Homo sapiens comment smacked me right between the eyes. But, upon doing a little research (I used the Avengers DVD-ROM for this review), I found that Pietro had used the term “Homo superior” in describing himself and Wanda during their reflection of their careers on page 10 of Avengers #16.

Karen: his hang-up with this presages some of his later issues, particularly when it comes to his daughter, Luna.

Doug: Is Wanda’s lack of ability to use her hex power when having her eyes shielded just one more confusing aspect of her powers?

Sharon: Seems to me a case of a harried Stan not really understanding the art. He could have easily dialogued something like Wanda was caught by surprise and being choked or the like, starting to black out, etc., before she had a chance to use her power.

Karen: Unfortunately the police side with the Ringmaster, and the ex-Avengers are on the lam again! There’s a fun couple of panels where we see the reaction of the man on the street, including two kids in Marvel t-shirts (one with the Avengers, one with the FF) arguing over the innocence of the team! “Aw, your uncle eats pickles!” shouts one youngster – obviously an insult of high degree.

Doug: Your saying that brings to mind the scene from the film “A Christmas Story” when the kids discuss the “double-dog dare”. Funny, very childlike, stuff!

Karen: In the meantime Cap has tracked down Power Man, and discovers he’s been working with the Enchantress. He manages to tape a confession from the villains, which will undoubtedly clear the Avengers – if he can survive long enough to get it to the authorities!

Doug: Is it just me, or are disguises used in comic books the greatest technology known to man? I mean, how in the world could anyone not have known that the PR guy was someone wearing a costume?? Similarly, going back a couple of weeks in blog-time, we discussed Superman and Cosmic Man switching identities by using rubber masks… Has anyone ever been fooled by a trick-or-treater at your door?

Sharon: The worse part is, Cap has his Cap mask on underneath the rubber mask! This is one of those Silver Age comic book conceits you just have to take with a grain of salt.

Karen: There are some sizzling action scenes, with Cap trying to outmaneuver the super-strong Power Man. At one point he says to Power Man, “Remember – you’re fighting the weakest one! My partners are all younger- and have greater powers!” Again, we see Cap as less than the ever-confident leader he would one day become.

Doug: Cap at his best.

Sharon: To me, this seemed to an instance of Cap using his “leadership” skills and psychology to impart some fear in Power Man; I can’t imagine Cap really thought he was weaker than Hawkeye or Wanda (with her then “small-potatoes” power that seemed useful in making people trip or drapes fall and the like).

Karen: Eventually Cap does get knocked out, but right then, those three younger and greater team-mates of his arrive! They battle Power Man to a standstill, but he gives up when the Enchantress deserts him. The Avengers are exonerated, and it seems like we’re cruising towards a happy ending – but guess again! Cap says he’s had it with the rest of the team. “Now that our names are cleared, I’m kissin’ you off!” the star-spangled hero says, leaving both the Avengers and the reader shocked!

Sharon: Cap seemed reluctant to take on the leader role that was handed to him (in Avengers #16), and as mentioned, he seemed awfully eager to join SHIELD (and become a part-time Avenger) just a couple of issues earlier. Cap at this time was very conflicted--this was underscored in his Suspense tales, which had just reverted to the present day--and frankly, he would remain so until he finally cut the cord and “left” the Avengers—yes, again! --in #47. Some time later (after #47) when he returned to the Avengers, he had matured into the leader and paragon we all think of him as.

Karen: What a fun issue! There’s so much going on, and just when you think everything is back to normal –wham! Stan hits you right in face. Although it feels to me like Stan doesn’t really have Cap’s voice yet (“kissin’ you off”?? Really?), that just may be due to the fact that I’ve read so many later Cap and Avengers stories, where Cap is always depicted as a paragon of virtue. Here, he is much more human and in some ways more interesting.

Doug: Karen, you hit the nail on the head in regard to dialogue. I felt at several times in the story that the characters were just using cookie-cutter lines. I also thought that our musings about the nationality of Erik Josten were lost in his speech patterns (one could argue that Wanda and Pietro have lost their “European accents” as well).

Karen: Yes, Josten later makes a comment about ‘Santa Claus’ which seemed very American to me.

Sharon: It’s hard to believe Stan would have problems with the dialogue, since the protagonists were very unalike. But Stan gives Pietro Hawkeye-like dialogue: “I hope—for your sake—that you’re joking, mister!” and the oh-so-proper Wanda even calls Princess Python “Lady.” It’s not in keeping with the notion that Marvel’s strength was in its focus on characters’ individuality (in no small part through the dialogue). But as with the earlier example of the Wanda panel, this is a by-product of having one person—Stan—as the chief scripter (dialoguer) for the majority of the superhero books at the time. While it led to a unified Marvel Universe, it could also give rise to shortcuts and sloppiness, as here.

Karen: Sharon, I think you have got something there. Stan had so many books to write, I suppose he just slipped a bit with this one.

Karen: I also enjoyed all of the little inside comments, such as the page where Stan explains that the original Avengers are busy and can’t get involved. We find out Iron Man is fighting the Android in Tales of Suspense 72, and Thor is in Asgard in Thor 122. But as for Giant-Man’s whereabouts, the footnote says, “Your guess is as good as ours!” And at the conclusion of the story, the caption in the last panel tells us, “Does Cap really mean it? Is this another crucial split-up for the mighty Avengers? Do we have all kinds of dazzling surprises waiting for you next ish? Why not tune in and see for yourselves? This much we can tell you – if it isn’t the zingiest 12 cents worth of the month, we’ll never talk to Irving Forbush again! Face front!” It’s all good, goofy fun, without diminishing the characters or the story one bit.

Doug: Yep – I really miss storytelling like this. It is goofy, but there are pictures that move the eye across and up and down the page, and there are words – and lots of them! The cross-referencing is great fun, too – but no where did the reader feel like he/she was required to buy all of the other books in order to have a handle on what was happening in the Avengers.

Doug: I’d also comment that I love the house ads! Every month from this era was a great month. I wish I’d been around to have that wide-eyed wonder at the spinner racks as each new week brought more four-color wonderment.

Breaking Up is Hard To Do: Cap's Kooky Quartet

2009-05-06T10:10:00.000-05:00

Avengers #21 (October 1965)

“The Bitter Taste of Defeat”

Stan Lee (writer), Don Heck (penciller), Wally Wood (inker)

Karen: This post kicks off a four-issue review of Avengers, at a most auspicious time for the team. It was 1965; mere months before, The Avengers were inarguably a team of Earth’s Mightiest Heroes. But with the departure of Thor, Iron Man, Giant-Man, and the Wasp, we were left with a team of Captain America and … well, a bunch of misfits, if not outright criminals! While Cap stayed on (and where would he go? In those days he was really a man without a home other than the Avengers) to lead this group, the three newest members of the team were hardly respected heroes. The mutant siblings Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch had formerly been members of Magneto’s Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, if somewhat reluctantly so. Hawkeye had been mistaken for a bad guy by Iron Man, and then been caught up in the Black Widow’s web of espionage. But the one thing all three had in common was a need to redeem themselves. So with Cap’s guidance, they took up the mantle of the Avengers.

Karen: But it wasn’t easy. The team lacked the sheer raw power of the founding members. They had to make up for that with teamwork. After a very rocky start, they would coalesce into a superb fighting force, even capable of facing Kang (as we’ll soon see)! We’ll be looking at a group of issues that show us how that transition occurred.

Doug: I thought the team’s lack of power was really on display in the scene in the middle of this issue when the subway train was bearing down on the unconscious Quicksilver. In the past, the reader might have envisioned Thor, Iron Man, or even Giant-Man leaping in front of the charging juggernaut and putting a shoulder to it – with this group, that simply wasn’t an option! They had to rely on stealth, brains, and teamwork.

Karen: Issue 21 opens up with a squabble between Hawkeye and Captain America. This wasn’t uncommon back then; Hawkeye was young and cocky and took every opportunity he got to try to put Cap down. In return, Cap is more than willing to put Clint in his place. As a long-time Avengers fan, I can say that seeing the character growth of Hawkeye as it played out over the years, as well as the development of his friendship with Cap, was one of the most enjoyable aspects of the title. At the stage we’re discussing here, Hawkeye is all bluster. He wants to lead the team, be the hero – he’s full of himself, and yet there’s also the sense that he feels inadequate, particularly when compared to the living legend of World War 2. In this issue he does not have literally a single non-insulting comment to Cap! Cracks about his age, his abilities, his leadership skills – I don’t know how Cap restrained himself from beating the living daylights out of Hawkeye!

Sharon: So Stan, who was writing this banter, would have been roughly the same age as old man “Methuselah” Cap here—early forties.

Doug: Having read these issues several times, I do think that Stan’s insistence on highlighting the tension between these characters could become grating on the nerves at times. Even though, as you said, most of Hawkeye’s shtick was all bluster, it is hard to believe that nary a civil word seemed to ever have been spoken! You know, I was thinking about who might have played Hawkeye on the big screen, and the very first actor who came to mind was the dashing young Harrison Ford as playing Han Solo in Star Wars: A New Hope way back in 1977! He was good looking, brash, sarcastic – just generally obnoxious!

Karen: While Hawkeye makes no bones about wanting to lead the team, Quicksilver says nothing, but Wanda suggests her brother would make a good leader. Always sticking together, those two. And her thoughts indicate some romantic interest in Cap –“His touch! So strong, and yet, so gentle!” – but he is seemingly oblivious. I wonder if Stan ever thought to put those two together?

Sharon: Oh, absolutely! I have no doubt that a Cap-Wanda romance was the original plan. I believe Stan wanted to replicate his successful Fantastic Four formula with the Avengers, so in Avengers #16 he installed a quartet of characters who didn’t exist outside the Avengers comic (at the time, Cap’s feature in Suspense was set in World War II). Notice, too, that that Cap hanger-on Rick Jones (a mainstay in the Avengers comic since issue #1) was gone with issue #17, so Stan was obviously aiming to move Cap in a new direction. So…now you had a pair of siblings, Pietro and Wanda (à la Johnny And Sue); a quarrelsome, irreverent loudmouth, Hawkeye (à la Ben); and with Cap-Wanda-Hawkeye, an incipient love triangle (not exactly the same, but potentially similar enough to what had gone on with Reed-Sue-Namor). But then with Tales of Suspense #72 (contemporaneous with Avengers #22), Cap’s Suspense adventures suddenly shifted back to the present (due to fans’ demands?) and any Cap-Wanda involvement just petered out. And Sharon Carter’s introduction a few months later in Suspense was the nail on the coffin, at least back then; not to mention the Black Widow’s appearance a few months later (in Avengers #29). With both Cap and Hawkeye otherwise occupied, Wanda was no longer needed as the romantic prize of the Avengers.

Karen: Not only would it have been a triangle, with both Cap and Hawkeye romantically interested in Wanda, but it could almost be a square(!), since Pietro was extremely watchful and protective of his sister. I could see him causing all sorts of trouble for Wanda’s paramours.

Sharon: I mentioned Reed-Sue-Namor as a possible early prototype, but I wonder-- had it been allowed to develop--if the Cap-Wanda-Hawkeye angle would have morphed into something closer to the (then-contemporary) Tony Stark-Pepper Potts-Happy Hogan soap opera…you know, rough-at-the-edges “ordinary joe” wants beautiful girl who wants handsome leader-type who doesn’t dare return her affections for reasons of his own.

Doug: I have to ask you two ladies (and perhaps you’ve voiced your opinions before…): Wanda with black hair or red? I must say that the black hair seems to date her in the 1960’s, as I believe by the time we get to the Englehart era, she is a redhead. But Karen, you are right – Wanda and Pietro seemed inseparable in these days – outcasts together, even though they were full-fledged Avengers.

Sharon: To me, comic book redheads are “tomato heads” Jean Grey, Mary Jane Watson and Medusa; and also orangey “pumpkin heads” like Crystal and Jimmy Olsen. Now, in terms of Wanda’s hair color, here’s the chronology: in her first Marvel appearances as an X-Men antagonist, her hair was consistently red-brown or, as Marvel often categorized that color, “auburn.” In X-Men #11, when Wanda and Pietro finally left the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, her hair was still auburn. But that same month, when she appeared in Avengers #16, all of a sudden her hair was black (or what passes for black in comics--meaning gray or blue colored hair with a lot of black shading). In fact, in #16 she was even specifically referred to (in a caption) as a “black-haired beauty.” Her hair remained black throughout her entire first tenure with the Avenger, through issue #53.

Sharon: Then, a couple of years later when she returned in Avengers #75, all of a sudden her hair was—you guessed it-- auburn again! Why the switch? Well, shortly after #75, I recall a reader wrote in and complained that then-inker “Tom Palmer had “inked Wanda’s hair the wrong color”; that it was supposed to be black, not auburn. After politely correcting the letter-writer regarding the difference between an inker and a colorist (though coincidentally Palmer just happened to have colored the issues circa #75 too), Marvel responded that Roy had recently discovered the early X-Men issues in which Wanda’s hair was auburn and he preferred the auburn to the black; so it’s been auburn more or less ever since (though at times it has been miscolored black, such as in Avengers #105-106). As for me, I prefer the black hair; I think it’s more harmonious with the fuchsia of her usual attire (for the same reason I like the standard color schemes of Sif and Star Sapphire; black and fuchsia is a color combo that appeals to me).

Karen: When I first saw Wanda, her hair was auburn, so I suppose it’s how I generally think of her. But I agree with Sharon, the black hair is more striking! I wouldn’t mind seeing her return to that color.

Sharon: And just to throw some more Lady Clairol into the mix: wasn’t Wanda’s hair a Jean Grey red color for a while in the 1990s? Not Wanda’s best look, in my opinion.

Karen: Beyond all the internal bickering, there’s actually a plot to this issue! One of Baron Zemo’s mercenaries discovers his hidden lab, where Wonder Man was created. With the help of the Enchantress (who has ditched the Executioner), small time crook Erik Josten becomes Power Man! The two of them then conspire to make it appears as if the Avengers are causing all sorts of problems in the city, thereby turning the citizens and mayor against them, even calling for their disbanding!

Doug: I don’t recall seeing this before – am I correct that Erik Josten is not an American? He remarked that he was wanted by Interpol for smuggling in Europe, and shortly after said something about “a foolish American science fiction movie”.

Sharon: I guess that’s why Stan gave him a name like Erik Josten –and not something All-American like, say, “Simon Williams.”

Karen: With the Germanic name, and having worked for Zemo, I’m getting a definite neo-nazi vibe, although that doesn’t come into play in the story. But heck, the Nazis were always the best villains. So easy to hate.

Karen: Doug, I know you mentioned before that you thought Wonder Man’s original outfit was pretty bad, but what about Power Man’s? Not only does it have the unappealing brown and red color scheme, but the guy has puffy sleeves! Puffy sleeves on a bruiser…I don’t get it. They look like they’d be more at home on Barbara Eden from “I Dream of Jeannie”!!

Doug: Barbara looked infinitely better in her outfit than Erik Josten could ever hope to look in his…

Sharon: Well, the costume was “created” by the Enchantress…perhaps puffy sleeves were all the rage in Asgard at the time…

Karen: Overall I thought the art in this issue was pretty good. But I have to admit, I’m more excited about the upcoming Heck-Romita team than I am Heck-Wood. Another costume comment: why is Quicksilver wearing winged booties???

Sharon: A holdover from Pietro’s X-Men look (designed by Kirby); a nod to Hermes/Mercury’s winged feet—or the Flash’s boots! It wasn’t until Avengers #36 that both Pietro and Wanda’s costumes were streamlined by Heck; Pietro lost the winged booties and Wanda lost the clunky headpiece (and the huge sash/belt she sometimes wore that—when miscolored pink instead of fuchsia--gave her costume the look of a two-piece bathing suit…as on the cover of Avengers #21!). And years later, in #75, the siblings’ costumes were tweaked again, by John Buscema.

Karen: I kind of liked Wanda’s ringed boots here. The boots she later wore were rather bland.

Sharon: I agree; when Buscema redid her costume in #75, he dispensed with the unique boots and the opera-length gloves and her attire became much more superhero-generic. Buscema also discarded the straps from the top part of her costume, but I guess she had enough to hold it up anyway (like Rita Hayworth in Gilda wearing that strapless gown…)

Doug: I just didn’t think Wood did much to enhance Heck’s stiff pencils. I’ve seen Wood’s pencils, and he was very good. We’ve all remarked that Heck became stiffer and stiffer as his work moved into the ‘70’s – at times I can see the foundation of that transition.

Sharon: I love Heck’s work here; as has often been stated, his work is very much in the Caniff tradition: lean, angular. Like Caniff, Heck manages to convey characters’ expression with an economy of line. I’ve read that Heck said he had a hard time adjusting to the “Marvel Method: (no full scripts for the artists) but you could have fooled me--his storytelling here is superb…there’s never an ambiguous panel, the story moves! And as a bonus, Wally Wood gives Heck’s pencils an unaccustomed lushness and depth. The characters all have more dimension, more heft than is commonly found in Heck’s renderings. Wanda looks very much like a 1950s version of Elizabeth Taylor—very velvety. One of my favorite Wanda pics of all time is the first panel of page 11. The Enchantress also looks especially beautiful, but in a different way. Heck and Wood…a most felicitous pairing of talents!

Doug: As long as we’re on the subject of costumes, a couple of comments – one, how the heck does (and more so – why the heck does - ) Pietro get the front of his hair to look like horns? When I was a kid, I just couldn’t figure out what was going on there, and to be honest, I still can’t.

Sharon: The wayward tufts of hair were meant to convey “windswept” hair—you know, running so fast his hair would not stay in place and would go “backwards” (away from his face). Again, you have to remember it was the fanciful Kirby who created Pietro’s (improbable) visuals.

Doug: Two, no one has drawn Cap’s costume better than John Cassaday. He really accentuated the chain mail around Cap’s chest and shoulders. As a child, I always thought Cap looked like he was molting! But in a few panels of his fight with Power Man we see what must be chain mail on the back of Cap’s head! Strange – don’t know if that was Heck or Wood doing that.

Sharon: Most likely Heck, as it’s present on his Cap here and there during that time, with other inkers.

Doug: We’ve talked about Wanda in the past – hex power, magic, chaos magic, etc. Here it didn’t seem that she was able to alter probability, but instead had the power to “cause a calamity” as she does when she topples the brick building. I don’t understand why there was such an evolution (read: indecision) of her powers over the years.

Sharon: Wanda’s original powers were thought to cause calamities, as you state, Doug; that’s very clear from her first appearance (X-Men #4), in which Pietro warns her not to gesture because doing so “always causes a disaster to happen!” Her so-called hex power seemed to make people trip over themselves, or caused levers to jam, or ceilings to crumble and fall, etc…she seemed to provoke “accidents.” Then soon after she joined the Avengers, a reader wrote in and theorized that, based on such examples, her power caused changes in molecular structures, which could result in pipes rusting and bursting, or a person’s nervous system having “crossed wires”, etc. (Avengers #23 letter column). The bottom line is that her hex caused some sort of entropy in the target. This made a lot of sense to me.

Sharon: Then another reader wrote in and hypothesized that, because her power usually manifested itself in “accidents” for the target, Wanda could influence probability and that she was a sort of “probability nexus” (Avengers #29 letter column). Yes, this was posited waaaay back in the mid-1960s and I believe someone at Marvel must have been paying attention, as years later, lo and behold—Wanda could all of a sudden “officially” alter probability. I will say I prefer these sorts of powers for her; I always detested her learning magic. As I’ve said many times, in my view Wanda was never meant to be a Zatanna or Enchantress or Dr. Strange. Her original power was unique.

Karen: It’s interesting to see the evolution of explanations for Wanda’s power. I’m sure that when Stan first devised it, it was little more than a ‘jinx’ ability – how it worked was left unsaid!

Karen: At the end of this issue, with the city demanding that the team disband, Cap feels terrible. “When I took command, the Avengers were at the height of their power, their prestige, their fame! And now- look what I’ve done!” Hawkeye responds, “Still tryin’ to hog all the credit, huh? Well, it won’t work! We’re all to blame! Maybe we just weren’t cut out to be - Avengers!” Dramatic, no?

Doug: Dramatic – yes! And maybe one of the reasons they weren’t cut out is that none of them remarked, not once, that their powers were not up to par when battling Power Man. The Enchantress, in each case, claimed to have depowered the Avengers. I would have thought that Quicksilver more than any of the others would have noticed. Too, I thought that Amora channeled Loki in many ways with her broad display of powers.

Sharon: Dramatic--yes! I think this would have been an exciting book to read back then. I know this ending would have had me counting the days until the next issue.

Time Keeps On Slipping: The Adult Legion

2009-04-28T14:00:00.000-05:00

Adventure Comics 355 (April 1967)

“The War of the Legions!”

Jim Shooter, Curt Swan/George Klein

Doug: Here we are for part two of our look at the Adult Legion – this story is somewhat of a conclusion to the tale we looked at last week, although it could be considered a done-in-one.

Doug: DC had a habit in the Silver Age that I guess strikes me as similar to Marvel’s use these days of the first page of the book as a non-story page. Nowadays Marvel gives the reader a recap of past issues; DC, over 40 years ago, gave the reader (to me) a second cover – that is, they printed an image that was a teaser of what was to come in the following pages. In either instance, I really feel the readers are cheated out of additional story/art space. But I’ll give a slight tip of the hat to DC in that the reader at least got a large splash page instead of a small recycled panel (as Marvel does).

Karen: Since I only started reading DC in the mid 70s, I haven’t seen too many of these splash pages. It seems very odd to a Marvel reader like me. With a lot of the old Marvel books, they liked to start in media res! But DC’s method here is preferable to the text recap pages used now.

Sharon: That was part of the DC formula—the splash page functioned as a second cover—just in case the cover by itself was not enough to reel in the impressionable youngster! And of course, Superman (or Superboy), being the main DC attraction, had to be featured on the cover-- even if, as here, he’s only in a few panels in the story.

Doug: Time travel problem (again!) – on the second page, Superman comments to the assembled Legionnaires that he must return to his own time to get some pressing work done. Why couldn’t Brainy just send him back to the exact second he had left? No one would have known he was gone, and whatever deadlines he had wouldn’t be in danger. Ah, well…

Karen: Time travel is always messy. That’s why it’s so disturbing when Brainy says time travel is commonplace! How many things would get screwed up if people were time travelling willy-nilly all over the place –er, time?

Sharon: Yeah, some readers would write in and question why Superman (or Superboy) was in the future for, say, two weeks, did that necessarily mean he was gone from the 20th century for those two weeks? Why wouldn’t he return to his own time a few seconds after he left? Some readers—including kids--didn’t buy it.

Karen: Also, Superman’s quote at hearing about the casualness of time travel – “Well I’ll be a three-eyed Kryptonian babootch!” – just kills me! Was he always saying stuff like that back in the 60s, or was that just Shooter?

Sharon: The dialogue was consistent with how Superman was usually written in his own comic and throughout the Weisinger-edited books. We tend to credit Stan Lee with creating a unified Marvel Universe but overlook the fact that some editors at DC were doing the same thing—the difference is, at DC the editors (Weisinger, Schwartz, et al) each oversaw 4-8 books, and not an entire line comprised of 8-10 titles (as Stan did). While there were varying degrees of character/story consistency among each DC editors’ set of books, Weisinger really stands out as someone who championed a cohesive mythology for his books (Superman, Superboy, Superman and Supergirl in Action, Superboy and the Legion in Adventure, World’s Finest, Jimmy Olsen, Lois Lane) by mixing and matching the same elements among them: the LSH, Supergirl, Jimmy, Lois, Perry White, Lana Lang, Lucy Lane, Lori Lemaris and Atlantis, Pete Ross, the super pets, Ma and Pa Kent, Kryptonite, Kandor, Argo City, the Fortress of Solitude, the Phantom Zone, Bizarro, Braniac, Luthor, Lena Thorul, etc.

Sharon: It’s no accident that as his Superman family was growing, Weisinger also instituted the first DC Annual, which compiled earlier tales of Superman (the start of the fabled 80-page DC Giants), so that his audience could familiarize themselves with Superman’s history. Weisinger had already woven a rich Superman tapestry before the Fantastic Four were a gleam in Stan or Jack’s eyes (well, maybe not Jack’s because the FF is reminiscent of Jack’s Challengers of the Unknown. But that’s a topic for another day…). Anyway, while Stan and Jack and Marvel can be credited with tapping into a new, older audience, kudos should also be given to Weisinger, who sought to provide his (younger) audience with an interconnected cast of characters and concepts.

Doug: “That weird ship hovering up there… as if waiting for something???” said Brainiac-5, the smartest guy around. Hey, dude, the SV logo on it ring a bell? Duh – not until the next panel when he gets himself captured.

Sharon: Maybe he thought the vessel belonged to Shrinking Violet? Oh, that’s right, she had retired…

Doug: And if you’re the Legion of Super-Villains, why don’t you just announce your presence?? This is really a quaint way of storytelling – the innocence in it is lost in today’s mags filled with sex and ultra-violence.

Doug: I also liked the SV seal on the envelopes that popped into the Legion’s hands – reminded me of the Hallmark Gold Crown stickers!

Doug: So anyway, Superman leaves, Brainy is kidnapped, and the five Legionnaires in this story (Lightning Man, Cosmic Man, Saturn Woman, Polar Man, and Element Man) are sent to five different destinations to try to find him. Two new do-badders are introduced for this tale – Echo, the master of sound, and Beauty Blaze, who can manipulate fire.

Sharon: You know, even with the additional two members, I find it amusing that a grand total of five baddies constitutes a “legion!” I guess we’re meant to assume there are plenty of other criminal members of the LSV, but they just weren’t available for this mission?

Doug: Interestingly enough, Lightning Lord and Saturn Queen combat their younger counterparts, but Cosmic King does battle with Element Man while Cosmic Man battles Echo.

Sharon: Element Man and Cosmic King’s similar powers made them natural adversaries, as far back in Adventure #331 when the teen Element Lad’s powers were used to counteract Cosmic King’s.

Karen: Wasn’t splitting the team up a typical DC convention of the time? I seem to recall this often occurred in Justice League.

Sharon: Yes, and it often happened to the Legion too, when they opposed a team--the Fatal Five, the Wanderers…

Doug: Shooter must have done his homework, or perhaps he was a closet alchemist – Element Man informs us that Cosmic King’s plot to destroy Metropolis by exploding plutonium was stifled when EM transmuted nearby objects to cadmium, which absorbs plutonium neutrons thus preventing the explosion. Hey, who am I to say?? Seems plausible to me!

Karen: Shooter tried to give scientific explanations for most of the Legionnaires’ feats here. He must have been paying attention in his science classes!

Sharon: I love how Saturn Woman’s evil nature is underscored by her thin, “unattractive” (for a comic book female) face. And does anyone else think Echo’s face looks a wee bit like the similarly powered Klaw (who’d been introduced in the Fantastic Four comic about a year earlier)?

Doug: Well, to make a long story short, the Legion gets their collective butts kicked by the cadre of super-villains, only to be saved at the last minute by… Let me just say that I didn’t care for the ending. In my opinion, doing the obvious trick of having Superman/-boy suddenly reappear, or Mon-el, or whoever, would have been better than the choice Shooter (certainly under the orders of Mort Weisinger) made.

Karen: I agree, this was a very weak ending. It was probably supposed to shock the reader but it just seemed so contrived. Then again, it was written by a teen-ager, for a young audience. However, the previous ‘Adult Legion’ story did have its charms. This one just comes up flat.

Sharon: I’m going to have to “spoil” this 40-year-old story, so if anyone has not read #355 and wants to be surprised, read no further. The ending illustrates the downside to Weisinger’s cohesive approach to the Superman titles; there was a tendency to overuse the common elements. For one thing, in #355 the two saviors show up in lead lined armors—just as Sir Prize and Miss Terious did a scant few issues earlier, in Adventure #350 and #351! I’ve heard of recycling plots but—a scant 4 issues later?? Then, three months later after Mr. Mxyzptlk’s appearance in #355, he shows up again in the “surprise” ending in World’s Finest #169 (despite the presence of Batman, World’s Finest was very much a typical Superman book edited by Weisinger).

Sharon: All in all, I agree with my esteemed colleagues that #355’s story was not as entertaining as #354’s. However, both issues provide a good look at quintessential DC back then: “once and done” tales that were complete in themselves (even with the occasional two-parter as here)--short stories, as opposed to Marvel’s ongoing “novels.” Any real changes to the tried-and-true DC formula were about a year away (1968), when DC finally had to admit that Marvel was no mere flash in the pan.

Tomorrow Never Knows: The Adult Legion

2009-04-21T10:36:00.000-05:00

Adventure Comics # 354 (March 1967)

“The Adult Legion!"

Jim Shooter, Curt Swan/George Klein

Doug: This week it’s back to the Silver Age! It’s been a few months since we’ve discussed the 1960’s, and actually quite a long time since we’ve done anything DC. We’ll rectify both of those situations with this installment’s look at a fun chapter in the annals of the Legion of Super-Heroes – the Adult Legion! Unless otherwise stated, we are all using the trade paperback, Legion of Super-Heroes: 1,050 Years of the Future.

Sharon: While I own the great trade paperback Doug mentions, I also have a copy of the comic itself in my hot little hands, purchased a couple of years ago—the comic, that is, not my hands. I’ll be looking at both the reprint in the book and the comic.

Doug: The first thing I noticed on the splash page of Adventure 354 was that the Legionnaires were all still wearing the same costumes they’d worn as teenagers. Lord have mercy, but if I was still wearing all of those floral polyester shirts… I also noticed that Cosmic Boy had a receding hairline, a condition that would afflict other teammates as well. Isn’t it funny that while writers and artists let their imaginations run wild with rocket ships, futuristic buildings, etc., they couldn’t seem to grasp medical advancements?

Sharon: May I ask why, in the Legion’s headquarters, there is an exhibit commemorating the marriages in the Legion? Other than functioning as exposition, of course.

Karen: The depictions of the ‘adult’ Legionnaires are pretty funny. The men all look significantly older than Superman – or how most of the DC heroes were portrayed. I know they wanted to alter their appearances enough so that the (presumably) young reader would understand that these were grown-ups, but they look like they are closing in on retirement! Especially surprising was the former Colossal Boy, who sports a full beard! I don’t think I’ve seen many bearded characters in comics from that time (the Chief from the Doom Patrol is the only one I can think of off-hand).

Sharon: The visual depiction of the adult male Legionnaires was hilarious: they are all follicularly challenged and most sport at least a hint of jowls/double chin, whereas Supes is his usual handsome self. Are we to assume that having Kryptonian genes-- and not exercise and healthy eating-- is the key to aging gracefully?

Karen: It’s also very indicative of the times, that the male Legionnaires who have left the Legion are shown as having careers – Matter Eater Lad is president of his homeworld, Mon-El is a space explorer, Ultra Boy is director of the Science Police – but the female ex-Legionnaires all seem to be wives and mothers!

Sharon: Except for the ever-independent Saturn Girl—I mean, Saturn Woman. Sure, she’s married here, but she’s not about to relinquish her Legion duties! The fact that the rest of the women are all stay-at-home moms is an instance in which the writer’s youth definitely shows through (15 year old Jim Shooter).

Doug: The art in this story is just vintage Curt Swan. I know Sharon will want to comment on the able inks of George Klein. Swan’s Superman is thick and barrel-chested with that classic Superman chin and spit curl. While DC’s Silver Age artists often lacked the realism of Marvel’s John Buscema and John Romita, they did offer up a look as distinctive to their characters as Jack Kirby’s style was for Marvel’s stable. I often find that Swan’s et al.’s more “cartoony” style seemed to fit with the stories DC’s writers were telling – generally one-and-done tales with a mystery or moral twist.

Karen: Even though I haven't read many Superman titles, I think the Curt Swan look is probably the one that pops into my head when I first think of Superman. It’s iconic, very simple yet strong.

Sharon: Swan-Klein will always represent the classic Silver Age DC look for me even if it’s static (especially when compared to the dynamic style at Marvel during this time)…but the static look kind of suits the classic aura of Superman and the Superman family. George Klein’s embellishments perfectly, subtly enhanced Swan’s clean lines; there was no distortion. Later on, when Jack Abel inked Swan’s Superman and Legion, the artwork had a completely different, and less pleasing, look.

Doug: As far as the story goes, Superman is summoned to the future, but a few years later than when he usually visited. I thought this created a great deal of questions – for instance, whenever the teen Legion needed a bit more power, why didn’t they contact Superman rather than Superboy? Interesting…

Sharon: Right. Talk about opening a can of worms. The idea that Superboy only visits the teen Legion and Superman visits the adult Legion is silly; but it probably had to be reduced to this simple a level because of the readership at the time, and also because of the young author writing it.

Doug: Anyway, the technology is again interesting. In an era when time travel and teleportation seem commonplace, why the need for the monorail trains?

Sharon: Also how ridiculous is it that Superman immediately lapsed into calling the heroes by their “adult” names: Night Woman, Cosmic Man, etc.

Doug: Did Brainiac 5 strike anyone as doing a Ward Cleaver impression? That he showed up smoking a pipe was just priceless! It really mimicked the entertainment of the ‘60’s, when smoking on television and in film was quite en vogue.

Karen: Another sign of the times. Of course, anyone as smart as Brainy should’ve known better than to be smoking! But I am sure in the 30th century, they all smoke vitamins or some other wonderful substance!

Sharon: Again, hilarious. And let’s not forget that Shooter was laying out these Legion stories for veteran penciler Swan; so the pipe came from Shooter’s rough pencils. I guess to a young teen back then, a pipe was an appropriate prop for a thinking man such as Brainy.

Doug: Anyway, the Legion is being attacked from someone who knows all of their secrets, despite the fact that there have been many recent changes to their headquarters, etc. Thus begins a typical DC Silver Age mystery story. I must admit, I had this one figured out right from the start – most authors didn’t include enough clues (or I’m just dense) that the reader could figure out the ending too easily. Jim Shooter tipped his hand early in this one, revealing the identity of the miscreant on page 15 of the story.

Karen: Yup, the mystery villain of this story is fairly obvious. The real pleasure in the tale is seeing the Legion’s future. Besides Superman’s view screen chats with former Legionnaires, we see the statues in the Legion’s HQ which give us clues to the fate of many characters – and I believe foreshadowed the arrival of some, such as Shadow Lass.

Sharon: Right, although the fact that Shady’s memorial statue’s skin was flesh-colored (Caucasian) here caused a flurry of letters later on, after she was introduced as a blue-skinned beauty. I believe Weisinger explained the statue’s hue was a simple coloring mistake, though later on someone theorized that her memorial statue was Earth flesh-colored because that’s how she appeared when Mon-El first fell in love with her (when she was masquerading as an Earth girl in Adventure #369-370).

Sharon: Speaking of the memorial statues of fallen Legionnaires, besides Shady we see Ferro Lad’s statue. Ferro Lad had just been killed off in the previous issue (#353), so Shooter’s future Legion tale was a bit of a respite from the tragedy that that just occurred, as well as a way to underscore that Ferro Lad would indeed stay dead (a rarity in comics).

Sharon: But at least one young reader was more intrigued by two statues that weren’t as prominent as Ferro Lad or Shady’s. So enchanted was this reader by the Chemical King and Quantum Queen statues that appeared on the cover--by their complementary “royal” names, by their coloring (Chem: green costume with black hair, Q. Queen: pink costume with white hair), by their inescapable, tragic fates--that a few years later, when Chemical King officially joined the Legion, she wrote a letter to the editor proposing these two doomed heroes get married, thus making their fates even more tragic. The letter was published, though a romance never materialized. But such was the appeal of the Legion; its young fans really got involved with the characters/stories/possibilities. (And forty years later I still think Chem and Queeny should have hooked up!)

Doug: I enjoyed “visiting” all of the grown-up Legionnaires. I especially liked seeing Mon-el in action. Mon has always been my favorite Legionnaire – he has all of the powers of Superboy without the baggage of the Silver Age Superman and all of his silly villains and stories. I also think he has one of the truly classic superhero suits in all of comicdom. Another fine touch was the presence of Polar Boy as an active member of the team. I loved the tales when the Substitute Heroes would attempt to save the day. I really enjoyed the mid-80’s Cosmic Boy mini-series that detailed his relationship with Night Girl. Good stuff.

Sharon: The problem with this story is that Shooter painted himself into a corner. We knew from years-earlier Supergirl story that Lighting Lad and Saturn Girl would eventually wed, but now we knew about the rest of the Legion regarding who would marry whom; and also who would remain alive until at least adulthood. True, we had just seen Ferro Lad die in action; and in the adult story newer members Karate Kid and Princess Projectra weren’t shown, and neither were veterans Chameleon Boy, Sun Boy or Invisible Kid (which was convenient later on as the Kid was killed in action some years later), but based on this story--which was taken as canon at the time-- we knew almost everyone else would make it past puberty unscathed, none the worse for the wear except for some extra pounds and less hair.

Doug: I love the signs hanging everywhere that identify the doors, buildings, etc. Can you see the influence of the Batman television series in Shooter’s writing?

Karen: Hilarious – big signs everywhere! I especially like the building with the sign “Arsenal” over it. Sure, just let everyone know where all the weapons are!

Sharon: Appropriate that you should mention the Batman TV show, Doug. According to many Shooter interviews, Weisinger instructed Shooter to watch Batman. Then Weisinger would call Shooter (at the Shooter family home in Pittsburgh) and quiz him on the episode, to see what the kid had picked up from the show. (And it’s well-known he also encouraged Shooter—and his other writers—to look to classic novels, short stories and movies for inspiration.)

Doug: The story plays out with a battle royale between the perpetrator and the team, and the big reveal was rewarding for me, as I said earlier I’d sleuthed the ending (very uncommon for me – DC was truly writing for my childlike mind!). But the biggest pay-off comes in the last three panels, when it is unveiled that the true masterminds of this heinous plot are none other than the Legion of Super-Villains!! Stay tuned!

The Marvel Chronicle: Love It, Hate It - Need It, Leave It?

2009-04-15T10:24:00.001-05:00

Marvel Chronicle: A Year By Year History

Tom Brevoort, Tom DeFalco, Matthew K. Manning, and Peter Sanderson

DK Publishing 2008

MSRP $50.00

Doug: I can’t recall a time in recent memory when I’ve seen a book at a book store and had that “Wow! I’ve gotta have this!” feeling. The Marvel Chronicle is one of those books. This week we’re going to take a look at this handsome reference text, and hopefully shine a little light on its upsides/downsides.

THE GOOD

Doug: I’ll start – physically-speaking, the Marvel Chronicle is a handsome book. From the die-cut wraparound cover to the colorful box inside which it’s packaged, this is a really cool product. It is a big, heavy book, standing about an inch thick. The pages are glossy, but the coloring is reserved – one complaint I often have about reprint material is that new coloring/printing techniques often lend too bright of a palette to material that originally saw the light of day on low-quality newsprint.

Doug: Marvel’s history is surveyed month-by-month and year-by-year from the company’s inception as Timely Comics in 1939 up to June 2008. Once the Silver Age years arrive, the yearly recaps grow longer, from two pages to four. This is welcome, as many readers will be most familiar with the Marvel Age and beyond.

Doug: As with any DK book, there is liberal use of reproduced images; while I would say the editors didn’t always pick the best or most relevant pictures, for the most part they got it right. At times the noted events/storylines are seminal to the Marvel we know today; at other times the editors seemed to relish finding the most irrelevant stories to highlight. Overall, there’s a really nice sampling of all things major and minor, with some lost nuggets around every page-turn.

Doug: Throughout the book are several two-page spreads, sometimes of whole comic book pages or covers, at other times a lone panel. Of note is a very large Hulk panel – captivating! These are very effective representations of period art, and each spread contains a caption noting its creators and historical relevance.

THE BAD

Doug: Well, where to begin… No, it’s not really that bad. Actually, my gripe really isn’t about the book itself, but about decisions Marvel has made lately that have in my mind harmed the industry (and particularly my enjoyment of modern comics). I am speaking of the two most recent banes of my existence – the mega-crossover and writing stories strictly with the trade paperback in mind. While I think the Marvel Chronicle is for the most part fair in their reporting, it’s that fairness passed off as brilliance that ticked me off. Joe Quesada and Bill Jemas made no bones about the fact that both of these recent “marketing strategies” are certainly by design, and done truly with no other goal than to up the profits of the company. Now I am not stupid – I understand that as a private enterprise, Marvel’s goal is to make money for itself. However, that should never be at the expense of the enjoyment of the consumer – creativity in the context of good, solid, in-character storytelling should be their foremost concern.

Doug: That’s my major beef with the book, and again it’s not the book’s fault. I will say that, while I read every page in the book, I didn’t get all that excited until I got to the Silver Age material. But I am glad this is a comprehensive story, as Marvel’s history is rich in anecdotes of triumphs and pitfalls.

THE UGLY

Doug: I’ll let Karen have her way with this, but let me just say that if the editorial staff at DK is going to go all Marvel-cutesy by giving themselves nicknames (that are an embarrassment to the good-natured habit of Stan Lee back in the Bullpen days), then they should have taken better care to turn out a book that had been checked for historical accuracy. Miss Karen?

Karen: Thank you, Doug. First, let me say that I have enjoyed reading the Chronicle. As Doug says, it is an attractive tome, well-designed and full of wonderful illustrations. However - you knew that was coming right? - there are a number of errors and gaffes which have diminished my enjoyment. Unlike Doug, I have not finished the entire book; I am currently in the 1980s. But from the previous sections I have noted mistakes which would make me question the reliability of the information provided. Here’s a few things that caught my eye:

- In the historical sidebar (these are a nice feature) for 1960, Charlton Heston is listed as the star of the film “Spartacus”. It was actually Kirk Douglas.

- In the 1964 section, the first appearance of Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch is discussed. However, it inaccurately describes the siblings as discovering their father was Magneto in Avengers 185. This actually took place in the first Vision and Scarlet Witch mini-series.

- In the entry on Count Nefaria for 1965, it describes him as “the most powerful crimelord on Earth”, with super-strength, speed, invulnerability, and laser vision – yet he did not receive those powers until 1977.

- In the description of Gwen Stacy’s death in the 1973 section, it says Spider-Man “managed to swoop down on his webbing and catch her”. In reality, he shot his webline at Gwen, and reeled her back up to the top of the bridge (possibly snapping her neck, but that’s a debate for another post).

- In the 1974 entry on the first appearance of the Punisher, the text states it was in Amazing Spider-Man 130, while the accompanying cover illustration clearly shows it was issue 129.

Karen: I don’t want to harp on this, but if I was able to find these, I am sure there are more. While it may seem nitpicky to some, I would like to be able to use this as a resource, but the lack of accuracy is bothersome. I would say buy it, enjoy it, but realize it may not always be correct in its version of events.

Sharon: A few years ago I bought the Fantastic Four: The Ultimate Guide by the same publisher, DK (Dorling-Kindersley). The FF book is filled with the same sort of obvious mistakes Karen lists. Then some time later I bought DK’s Avengers: The Ultimate Guide —again, really blatant mistakes. Still later on I was about to buy their DC Comics Encyclopedia; I got as far as getting on the checkout line at my local Barnes and Noble, but while waiting on line I flipped through the book. The sheer number of obvious errors was staggering, so I didn’t buy the book. The misinformation was just too maddening. Now, I understand how difficult it is to put such a book together—in fact, our frequent commentator Skydragon has given us his take on the many factors that are involved in producing books of this sort, too--and DK books are by no means the only ones with mistakes, but it’s just that DK’s mistakes are so apparent. So based on my experiences with their books, I’ve adjusted my expectations. In short, the visual appeal of DK’s books is considerable and worth the price of the book (I’m a sucker for comic book art in any venue), but readers should be aware there are likely to be some textual mistakes.

A Whiter Shade of Pale, part 2

2009-04-03T14:47:00.000-05:00

West Coast Avengers # 45 (June 1989)

“New Faces”

Avengers West Coast #47 (August 1989)

“With Friends Like These!”

Writer/Penciler: John Byrne

Sharon: Continuing with the flashbacks in AWC #45: we see the Vision’s creation at the hands of Ultron, and Avengers #152 (Wonder Man’s resurrection). I know it’s revealed a couple of issues later that Simon is in love with Wanda, but why would he object to helping his long-time friends, Wanda and Vision? Did he really think that not helping Wanda would make her love him (Simon) instead of the Vision?

Karen: It’s certainly an unflattering view of Wonder Man, at the least. And as you say, it appears contradictory to what we’ve seen of Simon in the past. By this time, his relationship with the Vision was fairly well-established – they looked on one another as almost brothers. For him to deny his “brother” a soul – primarily because he was interested in his “sister-in-law” – is pretty low.

Doug: Simon does come as very wishy-washy. Byrne did a nice job of portraying Simon as a milksop with the pose he drew him in for panel 2 on page 20. Jeez, Wondy looks like he’s ready for “Beach Blanket Bingo”!!

Sharon: The grief-stricken Wanda uses her power to bring down an entire cliff on Simon. He’s invulnerable, of course, but the intent was clear. As in the last issue, Wanda uses her power in an extremely destructive manner and once again I really felt the ferocity of her anger here.

Karen: Wanda certainly has improved from the days when her best shot was making villains trip!

Sharon: It’s in keeping with the nature of her powers, at least as I have always seen them: she causes “accidents” to happen: guns explode; people trip themselves up, buildings crumble, etc. An emotional person like Wanda having this type of unpredictable power is almost like a curse and it’s part of the character’s perpetual air of tragedy—makes her a great character, IMO. And I much prefer this sort of power for Wanda rather than her learning sorcery and spells and becoming like the Enchantress or Miss Harkness. By the way, it’s revealed some issues later that Immortus has been secretly amplifying Wanda’s powers, for his own nefarious purposes (and yes, readers, one day we will cover that development, so stay tuned!)

Doug: Byrne does himself homage to his Superman work with Simon’s reaction to Wanda’s anger. What did you think of the Vision’s statement that he could “manipulate the molecular structure of my body” and extend it to the cloth that was his former costume? Never seen that before.

Sharon: I think he had done something similar years earlier, at least with his cape. You have to assume his costume (created by Ultron? Horton?) was adaptable to his body, because he’d always been shown walk through walls and such with it on.

Karen: Back in issue 140, Vizh manipulated his cape’s structure to carry a serum inside Yellowjacket’s giant-sized bod.

Doug: Yes – remember it well. If I’m not mistaken, part of the duress that the Beast was under in concocting the formula was in making it in such a form that it could turn intangible with the Vision. I guess I always wrote the costume/cape off to that old Marvel standby – the unstable molecule.

Sharon: And another bombshell: Hank concludes that there’s no way the Vision was ever the original Human Torch (as had been supposed for many years). This discovery throws doubt over the Vision’s entire history.

Karen: It also makes absolutely no sense. Sigh.

Karen: This also reminds me, I found some more ‘evidence’ against Byrne’s Vision: Back in Avengers 135, when we are witnessing the origin of the Vision, an enraged Ultron seeks out Horton, because he can’t make sense of the Human Torch. He expected to find wires and circuits, but did not. Now I guess you could say that never happened, since Byrne tossed out Immortus’ version of the origin.

Doug: Some of the high points we discussed during our Celestial Madonna review, such as the Vision at first awakening with the Torch’s conscious being, are “now” moot. And, as we also said earlier, it makes no sense in regard to Hank’s reaction to the Vision in Avengers #93.

Karen: But still…so much was overturned so Byrne could do ‘his’ Vision story. And get the original Human Torch back in action. That’s an obsession I really don’t understand.

Sharon: There were other ways to bring the Torch back; Byrne could have just said the Torch (or Vision) was from an alternate reality or time stream (similar to what occurred in #135, the issue you mentioned, Karen) or something. Or even if the Vision was indeed made from spare or similar parts, Byrne didn’t have to dismantle him and erase his established personality. And if Byrne so objected to Vision the family man, Byrne could have just done away with the children (as he did a few issues later); again, why was the Vision’s mental and physical dismantling necessary?

Karen: It seems as though he has a personal problem with the character.

Sharon: West Coast Avengers #46 features a story about Hawkeye and the Great Lakes Avengers, then we return to the angst in #47 (now retitled Avengers West Coast…also, Solo Avengers was retitled Avengers Spotlight. This was done to make those Avengers titles sound more like the parent Avengers comic).

Doug: Wait, wait!! One more item of note concerning #45. This issue’s Bullpen Bulletins featured the return of Stan’s Soapbox! In this edition, Stan announced that Marvel had just been purchased by the same company that owned Revlon Cosmetics. Yeah, that worked out well…

Sharon: The issue opens with Wanda pleading with Hank and T’Challa (who has just returned to the United States) to help her husband. Except for the obvious physical change, in T’Challa’s view, the Vision seems very much as T’Challa had remembered him. Wanda interprets this to mean that neither hank nor T’Challa are interested in helping the Vision regain his former humanity and she storms out.

Sharon: I was puzzled by T’Challa’s reaction. How could he not see a difference in the Vision’s manner? Look at the issues after the Vision joined the Avengers, when T’Challa was a fulltime Avenger; Vizh was always verbose and active…not passive and stoic as here. Well, perhaps T’Challa and Vizh’s (off panel) meeting was especially animated. As an aside, Byrne draws a great T’Challa.

Karen: Byrne is re-writing a character and his history again. T’Challa has been around Vizh from the beginning. He should know better.

Doug: Agreed. Character assassination in a four-color sense. Seems more like what today’s authors do.

Sharon: For some reason, Wonder Man seeks out the Wasp and asks for her advice. The sagacious Jan already knows he’s in love with Wanda. Had Simon and Jan ever demonstrated this sort of friendship or closeness before? Did he seek Jan out because she was the only female around and so only a woman would understand his feelings of love? Their discussion and plotting about how to get Wanda to see Simon for the great guy he is comes off as callous and appalling. Look, I’m a real sucker for tales of unrequited love and romantic triangles (and I can understand why Simon would fall for Wanda); but as Jan puts it their “former comrade” is “dead,” and I would think that sad fact would be foremost on Jan and Simon’s minds at this time—not how to get Wanda to see what a swell guy Simon is.

Karen: This was just terrible. I recall when I read it at the time I felt like I had no idea who these characters were! The fact that Jan admits on one hand that their old comrade the Vision is essentially dead, and then on the other hand, is scheming with Simon to win his widow, just turns my stomach. Were we expected to feel sympathy for Simon? It just made me dislike these two intensely for awhile.

Doug: Jan does come off as very amoral here.

Karen: I also felt that there really was very little acknowledgement by the Avengers that the Vision was basically gone. I mean, I was angry when Bendis had him torn apart and they just put him in a crate somewhere. But this really ticks me off too. The Avengers I knew certainly would not have let things go at this; they would have found some way to restore him. Hell, they could’ve given him Cap’s brain patterns! I mean, at least he’d have the capacity for emotion, even if his personality was not the same.

Sharon: Yes, I wondered about that too…why not use Hank’s brain patterns, since he’s right there and a smart guy --or was Pym afraid the Vision would turn out like Ultron? Okay, then how about T’Challa? Or as Karen said, Cap?

Karen: The worst thing about all this was that we got an extremely boring Vision for the next decade or so, and even though Busiek did a great job with him, it was too little too late. He never returned to the prominence he once had.

Doug: I agree, Karen. When you think of the face of the Avengers, and I’m talking about all-time, it has to be among these three characters: Captain America, Hawkeye, and/or the Vision. You can talk all you want to about Thor and Iron Man, but their tenures on the team have for the most part been brief and at long intervals in between. The above three were the mainstays of the classic team. You are right – the character was never the same again, not even (in my opinion) in the Busiek/Perez years.

Sharon: The Vision clearly dominated the series for many years. My question is, once Byrne left this series (about ten issues after this one), why didn’t later writers or editors redo the story and restore Vision to his former glory? The albino vision seemed to last an awfully long time. I don’t think this version was very popular with readers, was it?

Karen: It was a shattering turn of events for the character. It seemed to me like the character basically disappeared, although you would see him in panels of Avengers. He just didn’t get much play. Then we got into the Harras era…things got much better when Busiek came along, but again, no one really picked up the ball after him.

Karen: It seems to me a big part of Byrne’s message is that the Vision is not a person. While I will not argue that the Vision was human –as clearly he was not – I will argue that he had a soul. Whatever quality it is that we recognize as humanity, he had it. He could feel, he could make decisions, he had a sense of self, and a conscience. He was probably a better person than a lot of folks. To see him discarded this way – even 20 years later –really upsets me.

Doug: After having been through these issues again (for the first time since their publication), I am starting to come over to the “sentient being” side that you ladies have been pulling me toward. I still have a difficult time finding any physical relationship between the Vision and Wanda as acceptable, and I must say that at times Byrne was very convincing in his deconstruction of the synthozoid to the status of “simple” robot (he can be turned off, his memories had to be re-programmed, etc.).

Sharon: I’ve read that Byrne gleaned this angle from the ISAAC storyline, in which Vizh uploaded his mind into computers. So, Byrne reasoned, the Vision was really nothing more than a computer program.

Karen: I went to the Byrne Robotics forums and found these comments from Byrne. He obviously favors the Torch, although I find little to justify his beliefs:

“Androids (ie, artificial humans) tend to blur the line between living and non-living. Especially in a case like the Human Torch, where his origin tends to establish him as something much more than a clever assemblage of non-organic parts. The "instability" which originally caused him to burst into flame spontaneously indicates there's an unknown factor involved.

Push come to shove, I would put Jim Hammond into his own category, and grant that, altho he is "not of woman born", he is, in a true sense, alive. In other words, not a toaster.” (Nov. 19, 2006)

“The question becomes, I suppose, one of value. Knowing that the Vision's complete personality/memory/intelligence was downloaded into a computer in Titan (was it Titan? Memory blurs) allowed me to scrape his brain in my VisionQuest story, since everything could be restored with a literal flip of a switch. Should something that can be so easily copied and retrieved be treated as having the same intrinsic value as a human being? Should any of the human Avengers, for instance, ever risk their lives on behalf of the Vision? My vote would be no (as some of you have probably already guessed) -- but I would say that even if it were not possible to restore or "save" the Vision in any other way. He is a "toaster".” (Nov. 19, 2006)

Karen: What exactly is it about the Torch’s origin that somehow makes him worthy, and the Vision not? How do we know the Torch’s mind couldn’t be downloaded? I also don’t think he’s interpreting what happened with ISAAC exactly right. I do think though, that the ISAAC storyline by Roger Stern is when we began to see writers emphasize the Vision’s artificial aspects.

Doug: I don’t agree with Byrne’s rationalizing about saving/not saving the Vision. Even if one considered him to be some sort of accessory, he is no one’s “property”, so he goes beyond the notion that he is some simple resource. He is a being, albeit an artificial being; if the Avengers would ask him to lay his “life” on the line for them, then they should in turn show him the same sort of loyalty.

Doug: But what we are left with at the end of this long arc is in no way remotely the Vision we once knew – Buscema’s strong, brooding powerhouse. Noble, yet chillingly effective at disrupting the very life essence of an enemy. Leader, comrade, confidant. That’s my Vision.

Karen: My Vision will always be the one from the Kree-Skrull War, when I first saw him – an android who behaved like a man desperate to save the woman he loved. This was, after all, the hero who left the room to go cry after he was invited to join the team. I will always see him as a being of deep feelings, if often afraid or unsure how to express those feelings.

A Whiter Shade Of Pale

2009-03-27T14:30:00.000-05:00

West Coast Avengers # 45 (June 1989)

“New Faces”

Avengers West Coast #47 (August 1989)

“With Friends Like These!”

Writer/Penciler: John Byrne

Doug: If I could interject, before we get started – I just took these two books out of their bags. I keep my funny books in the basement (yes, I do have a dehumidifier nearby, Mom) and I must say that you can’t beat that slightly musty smell of 20-year old newsprint. Sorry…

Sharon: Let us continue our exploration of John Byrne’s Vision Quest and his utter dismantling of the Vision and the Scarlet Witch’s lives, which spanned several issues of the West Coast Avengers in 1989. A lot happens in this issue: there’s the dramatic appearance of the newest Avenger (U.S. Agent); Tigra is starring in her own version of the Curse of the Cat People,-

Doug: Good Lord! Doesn’t Tigra resemble the Cat-Beast of today’s X-books?

Sharon: - Wanda interviews a new nanny for her kids; said kids vanish again; and Hawkeye quits the team, which prompts Mockingbird to go after him (yes, she’s still around. Now I ask you given her role in the events in the last few issues, would you keep her on the team?). Aww, who am I kidding? This issue is about one thing and one thing only: the return of the Vision.

Doug: Before we go and get all up in Byrne’s grill (which I fully intend to do, alongside my comrades), I would like to compliment the man on being 5 for 5 on awesome splash pages. The guy gets emotion and mood. The two splashes of Wanda are particularly appealing (#42 and #47).

Sharon: Yes, I agree. I’ve never particularly liked Byrne’s rendering of women, but he does a great Scarlet Witch (and I liked his Frankie Raye too). But other Byrne women like Sue Richards and Jan always seemed facially generic to me.

Doug: Anyone else catch Simon’s question to Hank as they arrived in the lab and surveyed the prone form of the Vision? “Can he really be fixed, Hank? I mean, if you turn him back on, what’s to stop him from attacking us again, like he did this morning?” Again, further evidence of Byrne’s denigration of the Vision’s humanity…

Sharon: You’d think Simon, of all people- -the one who had spent a lot of time with Vision over the years (and Simon’s mother even welcomed Vision into her family!)- - would show compassion for the Vision. Instead Simon acts like Vision’s not only inhuman but an enemy to boot!

Karen: Well, given what happens later, I doubt Simon wanted him turned back on.

Doug: Let me get something straight, too, as I may have my timeline out of order: this is a few years after the Vision had plucked that doo-hickey out of his brain that dampened his emotions and made him talk in the hollow voice, correct? So in effect, his personality was somewhat along the lines of his former self (or so we thought…), Jim Hammond?

Sharon: I don’t know about the Jim Hammond personality bit, but from what I’ve pieced together (since I didn’t read these books at the time), the chronology went something like this: in 1985, in a storyline spanning several issues of Avengers, the Vision interfaced with ISAAC and the world’s computers. This caused him to become increasingly unstable and more like a robot, because according to the knowledgeable folks over at the invaluable UncannyX-Men.net site, “interfacing with ISAAC corrupted the emotion-regulating chip” that Ultron had installed in him when creating him. This went on for many issues until finally, in Avengers #255, Vision plucked that thing out of his head (as you said, Doug) and his emotions returned…in fact, they seemed intensified.

Karen: Our X-Men friends are a little off. It was issue 254 where Vision pulled the control crystal out of his head. It had been put there by Ultron in order to allow him easier control of the Vision, and it also allowed Vizh to be taken over a few times. The crystal repressed his emotional growth, and when he was linked to ISAAC, the combination caused his reasoning to become distorted. This is why he tried to take over the world. He was not more robot-like at this stage; if anything, he was more emotional, but in an unbalanced way.

Sharon: Got it…thanks for clarifying the chronology, Karen! So Avengers #254 contained the infamous scene with the Vision plucking that crystal doohickey out of his head (ugh!) and the denouement was in #255 (at which time Wanda and Vizh left active Avengers duty for a while). And I do recall seeing excerpts here and there of a malevolently smiling Vision keeping secrets from Wanda so the notion that he was more robotic (in the issues preceding #254) is inaccurate, as you said.

Karen: When he was disconnected from ISAAC and removed the crystal, he removed the limitations on his emotional growth. Immediately his word balloons went from his old square, yellow ones to the normal balloons everyone else had – I suppose this was to show that he had become even more ‘human’.

Doug: How did you two feel about this change? Personally, I didn’t care for it. I had grown to adulthood with the yellow balloons, the so-called hollow voice, etc. This was quite a departure from that comfort zone – I could never “hear” Vision speaking in a normal voice.

Sharon: Since I read these issues years after they originally appeared and out of chronological order, it didn’t really make an impact on me. I did think he sounded awfully “human” in the VSW limited series but just thought that was Englehart’s preferred way of writing him.

Sharon: Then in late 1985-1986, he and Wanda left the Avengers and she became pregnant (this was the 12-issue Vision and Scarlet Witch limited series). Throughout this series the Vision was utterly human, there was not a trace of android coldness in him. This series ended in September 1986 (cover date) and I believe the couple wasn’t seen until West Coast Avengers #33, in 1988. So, Wanda and Vizh had been absent from action for a while.

Sharon: Also, Steve Englehart scripted the V&SW limited series and the West Coast Avengers during this time—as well as the origin of the Vision many years earlier in the Avengers (which tied the Vision to the original Torch). When Byrne took over WCA with #42 in 1989, the first thing he did was decisively demolish the notion of the Vision as Mike Brady. It’s almost like what Englehart hath brought together, let no man but Byrne tear asunder. So while Englehart wrote what could be read as a fairy tale, Byrne resolutely went in the opposite direction and painted an ultra-realistic picture.

Karen: I felt Englehart’s Vizh was way too emotional.

Sharon: Anyway, back to WCA—I mean AWC #47: Hank tells Wanda he has successfully reprogrammed the Vision’s memory banks. But there is one small problem…

Sharon: Wanda is then confronted by a tall, ghostly pale, seemingly nude figure—no, it’s not Dr. Manhattan, it’s the reassembled, reprogrammed Vision (his bio-synthetic skin was irreparably damaged so now it’s ivory-colored instead of red). The full page shot of the “new” Vision is shocking, to say the least, for evidently he’s naked, and his pelvic region looks as smooth as a Ken doll’s…so it’s apparent writer-artist John Byrne views the Vision as lacking genitals. Neither Wanda nor Hank seem to be surprised by this, so Byrne seems to be implying that the Vision was never well equipped in that area. You could have fooled me; I mean, the way that master of anatomy/musculature/body contour John Buscema drew the (clothed) Vision, it sure looked like he (Vizh) had a nice package down there. Well, as much as the Comics Code would allow for any costumed hero back then!

Karen: Again, this is Byrne’s way of making Vision less of a person. It’s all right to marginalize him, to destroy his relationship with Wanda, if he can make the readers view him as nothing more than a very sophisticated machine. The thing is, it flies in the face of what’s gone before. Sure, I don’t think anyone seriously thought the Vision capable of reproducing, but since he was “human in every way, only made of synthetic materials” as we’ve been told before, why this exclusion? There’s an interview with Roy Thomas from the Marvel magazine FOOM (issue 12, December 1975) where Thomas states “…as far as conception, I’m not quite sure what I had in mind when he was first created. I always assumed that he was complete, but as far as having a child, I don’t know.”

Sharon: Right! And I think Roy made his intent clear even earlier than that; take a look at Avengers #99 (1972), which predated that FOOM article by 3 years. In#99, a clearly anguished Vision confides to Jarvis “There are things I could never give her (Wanda)…a normal home…a family…” What a poignant scene and it establishes early on that he can’t father kids.

Karen: Yup, a great scene, which was included in one of the earlier posts.

Sharon: And in the letter column for Avengers #143, Marvel editorial acknowledges that it’s hardly likely that a “synthetic gland” could produce “human offspring.” So while it’s assumed Vision has organs and glands comparable to a human male’s, the tragedy is that he and Wanda can’t produce kids like a “normal” male-female couple (I guess adoption would have out of the question too, back in those days).

Doug: Filed under “Didn’t really notice it at the time (20 years ago)” – if you go back to the scene where the Vision’s flayed skin in on the lab table, it’s obvious that there is no genitalia present.

Karen: Speaking of the way Buscema drew the Vision, another notable difference with Byrne’s version is the lack of sensuality in his features. Sharon, I know you’ve mentioned this before, but Buscema always gave us a Vision with rather full lips and a sort of smoldering look. By contrast, Byrne’s Vision has such thin lips that his mouth looks more like a cut in his face. He also has no ears! He reminds me more of those descriptions people have given of the little grey aliens they say abducted them! Again, quite inhuman.

Doug: If the colorist had removed a bit of the yellow hue, this Vision could have been the twin brother to the Silver Surfer.

Sharon: Yes, the albino Vision always reminded me of the Surfer (visually), as I mentioned a while back on the AA boards. Buscema in particular drew a sensual (face and body) Surfer and Vision back in the day.

Sharon: Back to the action: Wanda kisses the Vision and I guess he’s just not that into her because his only response is “Is there some significance to this action?” Hank delivers the bad news: while the Vision’s memory has been restored (by Hank), the Vision no longer has the ability to feel emotion, so he cannot invoke feelings around his memories or actions. The key to allowing the Vision to feel emotions are Simon Williams’ brain patterns, and Simon has refused to allow his brain patterns to be used as the matrix for the Vision’s mind.

Doug: Again, what the heck’s a brain pattern? If he has memories and can catalog them in sequential order, seeing the cause/effect of these events, then what is lacking? Is a brain pattern simply emotions? I would not see it that way – if that were the case, then although Simon Williams “died” a hero in Avengers #9 wouldn’t some of his orneriness/nastiness have grafted onto the Vision’s mind?

Karen: Maybe it’s like engrams…OK, I won’t go there.

Sharon: Well, this struck me as very selfish of Simon. His explanation to a distraught Wanda is that he had “no choice” in the matter the “first time” and that it’s always been “hard” for him to accept that “another man” has a piece of his brain and soul. Except for a few issues just after Avengers #152 (about a dozen years earlier than WCA #45), I don’t recall this ever being an issue for Simon. He had been shown to be a close friend to both the Vision and Wanda for many years.

Sharon: As in the previous WCA issues we’ve discussed, Byrne utilizes flashbacks effectively; he recounts events from Avengers #9, Wonder Man’s debut and death.

Doug: Hey, and I liked (in the flashback scene) seeing Wondy in his original togs! What a gaudy Kirby-suit that was!!)

Sharon: I guess it was most likely a Kirby design, since he routinely designed many of the costumes back in the early days of the Marvel Age. And since he did the cover of Avengers #9, it may have served as a kind of blueprint for Don Heck (who penciled the story). But to me, the costume lacks that Kirby techno-galactic panache and seems almost--Heck-ish (Don had designed a few costumes himself, such as Hawkeye’s original and some Iron Man villains’). At any rate, Byrne’s Wonder Man flashbacks are very much in the style of Kirby, what with the full physique and balloon-like muscles Simon sports!

Doug: When I think of a Heck-designed costume, I think of the original Living Laser outfit. Don probably shouldn’t have designed costumes…

TO BE CONTINUED

The Lady’s Not For Byrning

2009-03-20T13:11:00.000-05:00

West Coast Avengers # 44 (May 1989)

“Better A Widow…”

Writer/Penciler: John Byrne

Inker: Mike Machlan

Sharon: First things first: the cover of West Coast Avengers #44 has always reminded me of Avengers #161…you remember, the famous Wanda covered by ants and writhing in pain cover by George Perez, from 1977. Well, the cover for WCA #44 may be devoid of ants, but poor Wanda is in no less distress. The composition of the two covers strikes me as being very similar—on the Perez cover the emphasis is on an upstage frontal view of Wanda’s odalisque-like torso; on Byrne’s cover she’s also upstage but this time we get a dorsal view. Both covers have a central, overtly aggressive male figure who’s projecting something upwards, and who is flanked by (seemingly) impotent males. But enough symbolism, let’s turn to page one …

Sharon: Well folks, right away Byrne shows the remains of the Vision’s head and face and we see what exactly what Byrne thinks of the Vision—that the Avenger is a collection of wires and metal and plastic. Ugh. What’s even more chilling is the text, as the expository caption tells us: “He (the Vision) is no longer aware of anything.” There’s no doubt this is not a joke and this pile of circuits and plastic is meant to be the Vision…who has been one of Marvel’s most vital characters in every sense of the word over the preceding two decades.

Karen: This image filled me with dread way back when I first read it in 1989. It still unnerves me today.

Doug: The first two panels of this story really fly in the face of what Roy Thomas and Neal Adams had done in the classic Kree-Skrull War story where Hank had to infiltrate the Vision’s body – this mess of metal looks nothing like Adams’ vision (no pun intended).

Karen: You’re right Doug – that was something I noticed immediately when I read this. Byrne basically ignored what had come before to be able to tell his story. I believe he had to emphasize the mechanical aspect of the Vision in order to dehumanize him. But in the past, we’d never seen anything that looked so mechanical in the Vision.

Sharon: Yes, I agree with both of you…here’s where Byrne’s concept of the Vision really diverges from Adam and Thomas’s. In Avengers #94 (1971), in the sequence Doug refers to, it was clearly shown that the Vision had a circulatory system much like a human’s. In Avengers #81, the sight of Wanda in peril causes the Vision’s “synthetic blood” to course “more swiftly through plastoid veins.” And of course at the conclusion of Avengers #58, he shed what appears for all intents and purposes to be a tear. So it seems pretty clear that his creator (Roy) intended the Vision to be a sort of human clone. Heck, Thomas said it outright in #57 (Hank Pym: He (the Vision) is every inch a human being—except that all his bodily organs are constructed of synthetic materials.”) Now, all of a sudden, Byrne makes it a point to show us that the Vision contains mechanical parts and wiring and materials you’d see in a computer. So we get a picture of the Vision as a machine!

Sharon: Back to the WCA story: Wanda cannot believe her eyes and ears as Bobbi helpfully tells here, yes, that this is indeed the Vision and that the dismantling and erasing was part of the plan. It turns out the brains behind the plan is one Mr. Brock (who has been apprehended by Wonder Man). Bobbi had assumed that the group behind this was KGB, but as we learn, this is a “worldwide joint venture” and in fact, Brock, the leader, is Canadian—hey, just like writer-artist Byrne himself!

Sharon: Hank Pym is not overly concerned about the dismantling; he is fairly certain he can reassemble the Vision and reminds Wanda that the Vision is based on the original Human Torch, the “most sophisticated android ever created.” Hank is more worried about the erasure of Vision’s mind and its accumulated data; without inclusion of the Vision’s memories, the rebuilt Vision will be a blank slate. So it seems that Simon Williams’ “brain patterns” were just a matrix upon which the Vision had accumulated his own experiences and reactions and memories. If all of this were erased, the Vision would be starting over. Based on Hank’s description, it seems clear to me, then, that the Vision is no mere “machine” (or copy of Simon), since the Vision has (or had) memories and experiences of his own—a thinking mind of his own. Later in the story, Hank says that the cartel has “destroyed all trace of his (Vision’s) former personality. For all intents and purposes, he’s dead.”

Doug: I know Hank Pym is supposed to be one of Marvel’s heavy hitters in the brains department, but do either of you find it a bit of a stretch that he’s a master of biochemistry and robotics? Seems an odd combination – yet most helpful here!

Sharon: LOL, sort of like doctors on soap operas, where general practitioners can do everything from open-heart surgery to delivering babies…and they make house calls! I guess it’s not unreasonable, though, to assume that Hank has spent time studying and pursuing additional degrees over the years.

Karen: It’s kind of maddening that on one hand, Byrne seems to recognize that the Vision was a thinking, feeling sentient being, and yet, he also seems to view him as nothing more than a hard drive that can be written over.

Doug: Karen, I guess I’d never fully examined my thoughts on the Vision before we started this arc. I always knew, of course, that he could think/reason/feel. But, and this is a huge but (again, no pun intended!), I guess my sense was that as an artificial construct his cognitive and emotive capabilities were reliant on a series of if-then statements (anyone else take computer programming classes way back when in the BASIC language?). I guess not to the extent that the Sentinels live as reactionary devices, but along those lines. Does that make him a less-valuable teammate? No, I don’t see it that way. Even if he did rely solely on brain patterns or Ultron’s programming, he operated with a sense of benevolence, loyalty, and compassion. But the artificial always supersedes the man for me.

Karen: I don’t know that you could place emotional responses in the framework of ‘if-then’ statements, and the Vision (and even Ultron) were exceedingly emotional! While I could buy that the Vision’s ability to feel is a result of ‘brain patterns’, I never understood why Ultron was so emotional – until Kurt Busiek revealed in volume 3 that Hank had provided his own brain patterns for that villain! I thought that was great idea. Although I still don’t have a solid idea of what a brain pattern is, as a plot device it does its job to move both story and character, and that’s good enough for me.

Sharon: Vision always seemed somewhat like the Doom Patrol’s original Robotman, a human brain/mind trapped in a synthetic body, though the difference would be the Vision’s body and organs are made of more lifelike, biocompatible materials than Robotman’s body. Before WCA #44 I’d consider Vizh to be a clone of a human: but here Byrne reduces him to a machine.

Sharon: We’ve spoken of Byrne’s way with expressions before; but I really love the panels here with Wanda and Hank. She is angry and distraught and incredulous and he’s facing a daunting task while trying to keep it together, for her (and everyone else’s) sake. Byrne manages to convey so much emotion here. You know, it’s not only their mouths (as Doug pointed out, a specialty of Byrne’s) but also their eyebrows. Unlike some artists, Byrne doesn’t give his characters uniformly big beautiful doe eyes; but we see realistic brows knotted with worry or fear or anger.

Karen: I’ve always thought he was a skilled artist, although for some reason, his work seems dated to me now. I can look at someone like Perez and it still looks fresh to me, but Byrne’s work definitely goes with a certain time period for me.

Doug: I’d agree that Byrne lives somewhere in my memories of comics in the 1980’s. He is instantly recognizable, with the elongated torsos and long striding figures.

Sharon: I actually have a better appreciation of Byrne’s art after rereading this. I was never crazy about his FF art (though his writing/stories were so strong there that the art was just an afterthought to me), but I really like what I see here. His depictions of Wanda and Hank are especially captivating: she’s presented visually as this über-feminine creature (wild flowing hair, perfect hourglass figure, sensual features) and he’s handsome, blond, All-American, smart—but he appears to be very much human, without the exaggerated physique of, say, Simon. And Byrne imbues the other characters, such as Jan and Simon and Bobbi and Clint, with individuality. Quite a difference from the uniformity imparted by the Silver Age artists I was weaned on.

Sharon: Regarding the original Human Torch (who, as mentioned, was considered pretty much human back in the Golden Age), who shows up but his creator, Dr. Phineas Horton (Jan had discovered him in WCA #42, being held captive by the same KGB—er, “international” group that duped Bobbi). Dr. Horton asserts that the Vision is “not” his Torch (as was commonly believed at the time, ever since the Vision’s origin was revealed during the Celestial Madonna saga many years earlier).

Karen: Well, I think this gets at the root of the problem: it seems like Byrne wanted to bring back the original Torch (which he does a few issues later) but couldn’t do it with the Vision in the way. So he just brushed aside years of work by other writers and artists to get his way. Yes, I’m biased here, but this does annoy me. My only solace is that Busiek came along with Avengers Forever and pretty much restored the old origin.

Doug: As I’d said earlier, if they’d only kept Toro alive back in Sub-Mariner #14, this might all have been unnecessary.

Sharon: At the time of Sub-Mariner #14, Marvel may not have wanted to risk another lawsuit by Carl Burgos, or bad feelings/negative publicity. Burgos created the original Human Torch and probably had a hand in creating Toro too and had previously sued Marvel over the Torch in the 1960s (and he received a settlement, even though back then comic characters such as the Torch were considered the property of the company and not the individual creator’s). So perhaps there were legal or ethical issues to consider at the time.

Sharon: Byrne then takes a couple of detours. First, he segues into the feral Tigra subplot (Hawkeye’s involved); and then we go back to Byrne’s X-Men roots as we see a display of all known mutants at the time, who are being scrutinized for —what else? — a nefarious plan of some sort. Of course, since this is an Avengers title, the baddies settle on Wanda (the Beast is deemed “too unstable.”) We’ll learn more next issue, but it’s an interesting concept. Did Byrne assume an Avengers reader would recognize all these mutants, most of whom were mainstays of the X books? Was this panoply a testament to the X-Men’s stunning dominance at the time? At any rate, in the space of only a couple of pages, Byrne economically and deftly integrates these subplots into the story.

Karen: Byrne really puts Wanda through the wringer in his run here!

Sharon: Back to the main story: Byrne then has an angry Wanda destroy the compound with her hex power. It’s destruction on a massive scale. I find it interesting how Byrne characterizes Wanda’s power (in the caption): as she uses her power, “reality itself begins to shift and flow…” What, no mention of probability shifting—now it’s acknowledged she in fact affects reality? Byrne then does cite the “odds” (probability) of the building crumbling, so I guess it’s the same thing, but I was surprised to see so overt a mention of her affecting reality here. And while I understand Wanda’s immense grief and anger, it just seemed like an excessively destructive reaction from her. I mean, if I were Wanda, I would have punched Bobbi’s lights out instead!

Karen: Well, I’ve always seen Wanda as being very emotional. In the past she has always been protective of the Vision and I was less surprised by her reaction than by the fact that she was powerful enough to cause so much destruction! But one has to wonder if this influenced later writers to treat Wanda’s abilities as though she had control over reality, and not the ability to affect outcomes. I think there’s a real difference there.

Sharon: Wanda wonders how anyone could have done this to the Vision; after all, as an Avenger he’s risked his life for mankind over and over again. Byrne has Hank explain that the group who dismantled/erased the Vision looked at him as nothing more than a machine. As if to underscore this view, Wonder Man is shown carrying canisters containing the “pseudo-organic” parts of the Vision. Not pretty.

Doug: I think Reed Richards seemed to have a similar attitude toward the Original Torch after the battle with Quasimodo in FF Annual #4. I’ve always found it odd that Reed didn’t confiscate the Torch’s body, if for no other reason than to keep him out of the hands of a potential do-badder. Here these “scientists” seemed to have seen the Vision as a bunch of components rather than as the sum of the parts.

Karen: I’ve never been comfortable with Reed Richards' decision in that issue. It still seems so cold – and of course, the Thing (the ‘monster’) is the one who appears to feel sympathy for the android Torch! That, at least, was in character.

Sharon: There’s more heartache in store for Wanda: the nanny says Thomas and William (Wanda’s boys) are missing! But Wanda comes upon them and they’re fine. Thinking the nanny is playing a sick practical joke, Wanda fires the confused woman. A couple of days later Wanda is with her children and Wonder Man stops by. Simon starts to say that he has never fully bought the Vision-Human Torch connection since Immortus—not exactly a trustworthy sort—is the one who related it. Wanda and Simon’s conversation is cut short as they hear terrible noises coming from Hank’s lab.

Karen: I have to admit, I never liked the idea of Wanda conjuring up children. It seemed utterly ridiculous and avoided what could have been some interesting storylines: Wanda wanting children, Vision feeling guilty or inadequate because he can’t give her a family, etc. I think Steve Englehart’s handling of the couple after their marriage really went in a bad direction.

Sharon: It surprised me that Englehart went the conventional route by marrying them off and then giving them children (which he intended to be real, not figments of anyone’s imagination or shards of anyone’s soul). As for the children’s conception, it certainly strained credulity (yes, even in a comic book) because Wanda had used her seemingly amped up hex power (along with some help from Agatha Harkness) to defy probability and become pregnant (in the second Vision and Scarlet Witch series). I agree, Karen, that the more interesting angle would have been to show the couple as barren and their struggles to cope with their feeling about that.

Doug: Englehart was never afraid to be “out there” with some of his storylines.

Sharon: Back to WCA #44: Wanda and Simon are attacked by a partially reconstructed Vision. And if there was any doubt as to Byrne’s intention, it is dispelled here as he presents a truly grotesque interpretation of the Vision, sheaths of muscles, tendons, etc. attached to a metal (I think) framework. I will say Byrne is extremely imaginative, and goes for the jugular; but did he have to reduce a once proud, noble character to—this? Hawkeye joins the battle and but the Vision is too powerful; it’s apparent Wanda’s power is needed to even the odds. But even though Simon and Clint are in danger of losing their lives, Wanda is paralyzed—she can’t bring herself to use her hex power against the one she loves, her husband the Vision. “What if I make him explode?” she cries. I found that to be a very canny statement by Wanda, but it’s kind of an odd statement from her since it implies that she sees him as “manufactured” (capable of exploding). Is this really how she thought of her husband? In the meantime, Hank saves the day. I really like this depiction of Hank; he’s smart and composed but compassionate. After Wanda, of all the characters involved, he’s the most vocal about the humanity of the Vision.

Karen: This reconstructed Vision reminded me strongly of the Terminator. The first film in that series had come out five years before. But the image does present us with a much more frightening Vision than we’ve ever seen. But on the other hand, human skeletons also arouse fear in some people.

Doug: I find the imagery of the metal and the synthetic muscle to be very strange. I keep thinking back to Ultron, a robot, creating the Vision. With Ultron’s obvious hatred for humanity, I’ve wondered why he would have gone to such great lengths to make his construct so outwardly (and, we thought, inwardly) human-looking. It really is a big mess – maybe there were more questions than we thought when the Vision was allegedly the Original Torch.

Sharon: That’s Byrne’s point. He’s dismissing the original concept of the Vision (from the Roy-Steve Englehart days). Byrne has gone on record many times as saying he hated the idea of the cozy little family unit for Vision and Wanda, so his solution was to 1) show the Vision was nothing more than a glorified machine and 2) reveal the kids to be imaginary. I consider anything to be fair game for writers/artists; as creative people working with fictional characters, they are entitled to their interpretations. But it seems to me that Byrne could have made his point about the implausibility of the Vision-Wanda union by just dealing with the children--he didn’t have to also literally and figuratively dismantle the Vision.

Karen: I also agree with you Sharon on the portrayal of Hank Pym here. It’s actually very consistent with the way he was shown in Avengers 57 and 58. He seems to view the Vision as a synthetic man, emphasizing the human qualities of the Vision.

Sharon: Yes, Hank seems to be the only one (besides Wanda) who feels that way. Jan and Simon seem less concerned about the Vision. Also, Hank is consistently shown to be solicitous toward Wanda here –and not because he wants to get into her pants (like Simon does!).

Sharon: Toward the end of this issue, the government sends a “watchdog” of sorts to join the ranks of the West Coast branch of the Avengers. In an amusing panel, the Avengers see a shadowy figure approaching and think it’s Cap…but it turns out to be U.S. Agent. Even in the midst of a dark tale like this, Byrne manages to inject humor here and there.

Doug: Anyone think that USAgent was Marvel’s answer to Guy Gardner’s popularity over at DC back in these days?

Karen: That’s a good point. At the very least, they were the two biggest jerks in their respective universes.

Sharon: Yep, the similarities are striking. And what a way to end this issue!

Byrne Baby Byrne!

2009-03-12T10:43:00.000-05:00

West Coast Avengers #43 (April 1989)

“Vision Quest!”

Writer/Penciler: John Byrne

Inker: Mike Machlan

Sharon: We’re continuing with our look John Byrne’s first arc for the West Coast Avengers. At the end of WCA #42, erstwhile member Mockingbird shows up and announces she can answer the team’s questions about the missing Vision.

Sharon: So, in #43, Mockingbird explains that she was duped into helping a group of people (they told Bobbi they were from SHIELD) with their top secret “contingency plan” that would ensure that the Vision would never again be in a position to take over the world’s computers (as he had done in Avengers #251-254 a few years earlier). So Bobbi joined this initiative and divulged Avengers secret security codes and the like, until she eventually wised up and found out the group wasn’t part of SHIELD. In fact, the group comprises people from several different countries and they’re all worried that the Vision has retained classified information from when he took control of the computers. So their goal was to totally erase the Vision’s memory.

Sharon: But by the time Bobbi discovered the truth and escaped her “hosts”, it’s a case of too little, too late: the plan was already put into action: the Vision was kidnapped (off-panel), the faux Ultron was sent as a distraction (as we saw in #42), the virus was introduced into the Avengers’ computer systems, etc. Bobbi is not exactly Ms. Popular as she relates her part in this mess; for one thing, she and Clint are estranged, so there’s no love lost there; not to mention poor Wanda, who cannot believe what she is hearing.

Sharon: That Bobbi could be duped in such a manner is hard to believe, but Byrne has her explain that she was distracted since she’d left the team and Hawkeye.

Karen: I agree, Mockingbird looks like a grade –A nitwit here. And to be honest, I’m not too fond of Hawkeye’s portrayal either – a little too simple-minded, I think, at this point in his career.

Doug: Motion carried! The story behind Bobbi’s explanation is well-crafted, and as you said dumbed-down enough that we could figure it out – surely a trained super-agent should have “gotten it”!

Sharon: The Avengers go off to find the Vision. As if Hawkeye doesn’t have enough to worry about with Bobbi, he grumbles that he’s the official leader of the WCA but others—Jan, Hank—are the ones barking out the orders. Good characterizations throughout by Byrne, with the exception of Bobbi, who—as we all agree--seems awfully dense.

Doug: Wanda’s coldness toward Bobbi is genuine and in-character – a nice bit of tension. Simon’s descent out of the quinjet is reminiscent of one of Colossus’ exits from the Blackbird!

Sharon: Again, I think Byrne draws a great Wanda and Hank. You can really see Wanda’s distress and anger; her expressions seem so varied and real. I also like how he handles Simon, in all his muscle-bound glory. Machlan’s the inker here again and, as Karen noted in our last entry, he doesn’t do much in the way of enhancing the pencils. But I think Byrne’s work is strong enough so it’s not damaged by the so-so embellishment.

Doug: Nowadays I think of George Perez as the leader in drawing facial expressions, and of giving each character a distinctive look. But Byrne’s splash page of Hawkeye is a real grabber. As we may have commented before (I’m sure we have somewhere), Byrne really used the mouth to give characterization as well as panel-to-panel emotion – that is so evident in this one panel. And the large panel on pages 2-3 is a great lesson in scale among the characters – almost as worthy a reference as some of the model sheets we’ve seen through the years.

Sharon: Wanda thinks of her history with her husband: her first words to the Vision (“Flee, whoever you are!”-- Avengers #76), the Celestial Madonna saga, Quicksilver’s censure of her marriage to a “machine”, and the birth of Vision’s and Wanda’s sons, Thomas and William. Byrne handles the flashbacks well and faithfully—as strange as this may sound, he does a great Don Heck in some of those panels!

Karen: I noticed that too! Particularly the one from GS Avengers 4, where Vision asks Wanda to marry him. It had that same sketchy look that Heck’s later art had.

Doug: You guys are good! I, too, noticed the Heck-ish artwork, but to be honest wrote it off to sub par Byrne pencils – we’ve discussed how he can be rushed and sketchy. Duh – it didn’t even occur to me that this was homage to Heck’s work. Seeing this now through your eyes, it carries a little more weight!

Karen: It’s actually kind of painful to see all those scenes of Vizh and Wanda together, knowing what is coming for both of them. At least Wanda is still around, even if she has gone nuts. Vizh has been replaced and everyone just treats the new “Vision” as if he were the old one. That frustrates the heck out of me.

Doug: I am not at all up on the current state of the Vision, other than what you two have told me. And knowing your feelings and how it’s being handled, I’m glad I haven’t spent any money toward the current situation.

Sharon: Byrne loves those cliffhangers: we get a glimpse of Wanda and Vizh’s kids, who are being cared for by their nanny, Miss Bach. Then the nanny gasps as she sees--what? We won’t find out until next issue. Similarly, the Wasp gasps when she comes across someone who’s imprisoned—who is it? Next issue.

Sharon: And finally, Mockingbird learns that the plan is “far ahead of schedule.” She knows where the Vision is and she leads Wanda to the ominous “Section 31.” There are scientists and other personnel there, and there’s a table on which circuitry is laid out. There are vats and tubes and tanks containing what looks like lungs, tendons, etc.--can you say gross? Then there’s –ugh--something that looks like red skin splayed out atop a counter. It’s a gruesome scene. In our last entry Doug mentioned the Tigra turning feral subplot in #42, and I found that hard to take; but this scene is far more stomach turning. Bobbi tells Wanda that this is what’s left of her husband, the Vision.

Karen: It’s hideous, to say the least. The tanks full of organs, the metallic skeleton – these are bad enough, but the skin is the kicker, just lying on a table, almost as if it were casually tossed aside. Of course, this is the effect Byrne is going for, and he achieves it. But then – and now – I find it highly disturbing, and don’t like seeing it.

Doug: Agreed. The flayed skin was a bit much. To be honest, I’m not sure I noticed it when I first read this 20 years ago. But it did jump up at me when I re-read it for this review. Highly disturbing, indeed…

Sharon: I don’t recall Byrne ever being this graphic in his FF work. I wonder how a reader in 1989 seeing this for the first time would have reacted back then —would one have just chalked this scene up to sensationalism? I can’t imagine anyone would accept Bobbi’s words that this—wreckage--was “…your husband, Wanda…” at face value.

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Byrne Notice!

2009-03-06T09:26:00.000-06:00

West Coast Avengers # 42 (March 1989)

“One of Our Androids is Missing!”

Writer/Penciler: John Byrne

Sharon: Confession time: I was a huge comic book fan as a kid but inexplicably, I stopped reading comics in 1972. My last comic back then was Avengers #105, in which a rather large obstacle to the Scarlet Witch and the Vision’s incipient romance was introduced—in this particular issue, he discovered that unlike humans, he was unaffected by love.

Sharon: Flash-forward 30-plus years later, when --just as inexplicably—I got back into comics. I had a lot of catching up to do and sought out back issues with a vengeance (helped immeasurably by online comics vendors such as Mile High Comics, New Kadia and Metropolis Comics). I was surprised to find that during my hiatus, Wanda and Vizh had overcome the odds and had gotten married at some point, but they were also the proud parents of two young boys! Ah, I guess the Vision had been capable of love, after all…

Doug: While I was away from comics during my high school years Marvel started doing mini-series. A nice thing after all – a great way to tell self-contained stories of characters who might otherwise only see the light of day in team or team-up books. So from 1980-85, apparently Wanda and Vizh found a way, so to speak. And I must say that whatever reasons were given then must be infinitely better than what Bendis cooked up a few years ago. Ugh… Incidentally, Wanda will give a recap of those circumstances in our next issue – WCA #43.

Sharon: So after I’d returned to comics I picked up West Coast Avengers #42, originally published in 1989. WCA #42 was John Byrne’s first issue on this particular title. I’d previously read—and enjoyed--many of his Fantastic Four issues, which collectively read like a sprawling novel…very rich and dense. So I was very eager to read his version of Earth’s Mightiest Heroes, or at least the west coast branch of such.

Doug: I had been a Byrne junkie from his X-Men days. Byrne has a very distinct style, whether inked by himself as here, or by his frequent collaborator, Terry Austin. I’ll say this about him doing his own work – this is much more polished than what he would turn out later for Dark Horse with his creator-owned “John Byrne’s Next Men”. That work was very scratchy – it appeared to me to have been rushed. This work was nice, clean… Of course, his best work (arguably) would come shortly after this run when he moved to DC to revamp Superman in the Man of Steel limited series and the renumbered Superman magazine.

Karen: Well you guys have heard me say this before, but I don’t think anyone complemented Byrne’s pencils as well as Terry Austin. I really don’t care for Mike Machlan’s inks here – the line work just seems thin and without weight.

Sharon: Yes, I agree the inking didn’t really enhance the pencils. The result was rather delicate. When I opened WCA #42, I was greeted by a splash page featuring the Scarlet Witch’s face, beneath an ominous title—“One of Our Androids is Missing!” Uh oh, that did not augur well. I must say that Byrne drew an absolutely beautiful Wanda.

Sharon: Turn the page and immediately we’re plunged into a mystery: Wanda does not know where the Vision is. Apparently over the past years, the married couple has always slept in the same bed even though the Vision has no need of sleep. This fine morning, without warning, Wanda wakes up and –the Vision is gone! Byrne then adds the rest of the cast—Hawkeye, Hank Pym (this is during his non-costumed “Dr. Pym” phase), Tigra, Wonder Man (sporting his infamous mullet), the Wasp, and a seemingly traitorous Mockingbird. Archenemy Ultron also makes an appearance, and a battle rages. The heroes manage to beat Ultron but it turns out to be false Ultron—a diversion. Hank promises to get to the bottom of it (and facetiously utters the command “Avengers Disassemble!”) Wanda thinks of the missing Vision and his creation, his legacy as the original Human Torch; how the Torch “died” and was resurrected by Ultron as the Vision; Vizh’s first encounter with the Avengers and his subsequent membership (in Avengers #57-58, which was recently chronicled here!) Though these events are presented as the reverie of the understandably worried Wanda, the sequence really underscores the man-made aspect of the Vision.

Doug: Just a quick comment on Simon’s haircut – at about the same time Johnny Storm was sporting a very contemporary ‘do. Not attractive, then or now!

Doug: Although I am not a fan of Tigra, I smiled at the little subplot Byrne planted with her. He has always been a master of weaving several threads through a story. The concept of this particular thread seems somewhat tired however – an animal-based character losing control to a feral side. Wolverine had struggled with this for years in X-Men, so perhaps it’s no surprise that Byrne would bring said concept to WCA and Tigra.

Doug: Can I say that I just love the classic look of Ultron?? He was especially well-drawn by George Perez during the “Bride of Ultron” arc in Avengers #’s 161-162 and 170-171. Byrne gives a capable version here. And although the battle turned out to be for naught, what with “Ultron” revealed as a phony, there were still some great, typically-hopeless moments.

Karen: I thought Byrne handled the characters well enough, although I could do without Hawkeye referring to Wanda as “Wanj” – where the heck did that come from?

Sharon: I know! Maybe Hawk had “Wandjina” (from the Champions of Angor/the Assemblers) on his mind…

Sharon: Well, it turns out that while the Avengers were busy battling the faux Ultron, a computer virus was infecting the Avengers’ systems (Hank had earlier noticed a glitch, prior to the Ultron appearance). Hank delivers the unthinkable news: according to Hank, the “virus has erased all trace of the Vision from our files… the virus has been transmitted to every computer we link with…and in all those systems all trace of the Vision has been obliterated!”

Doug: Hank Pym was portrayed as the leader here that he should always be portrayed as.

Sharon: Yes, I agree, I like how Byrne depicted Hank during the WCA era: a born leader, capable and resourceful. Byrne also drew him in an attractive manner.

Doug: Question: Don’t you think, given the three hour time difference between California and New York that the East Coasters might have alerted the West Coasters first concerning the computer glitch?

Sharon: Wouldn’t it have happened at the same time, but given the time zones it would have been 8am on the West Coast, 11am in the East?

Doug: Ah, excellent point! What I was thinking centered on Byrne’s telling us multiple times how early in the day it was – that most of the crew were still sleeping. I was thinking that if it was, say 6:00 am in California, then it would have been almost mid-morning in the East and more likely that the East Coasters would have caught the virus’ dirty deeds before the West Coasters knew what was going on.

Sharon: Yes, you’re right. Good point. Okay, so Hank’s using words like “erased” and “files” and “links” and “computers” when talking about the missing Avenger. Suddenly, the Vision sounds less like a husband and father and teammate than — well, a system – a bunch of files. In the space of one issue, Byrne established his concept of the Vision.

Doug: One could argue that the very title of this tome established Byrne’s opinion – the Vision is not even a synthozoid as we’ve known him in the past – he has been reduced to an “android”. To me, the term “synthozoid” means synthesis – a bringing together in this case of life and unlife. That being said, however, I would argue that in many ways the Human Torch was much more a “man” than the Vision ever was. The Torch never spoke in cold tones, found human relationships to be more natural, and had empathy without explanation. But in the end, either was still composed of plastic, electrical wires, and motors.

Karen: I would strongly disagree with that last sentence, but I’ll save that for later in our discussion – once Byrne has gutted our hero.

Sharon: Glad you brought up the original Human Torch, Doug. According to Roy Thomas in TwoMorrow’s Justice League Companion (an excellent resource), the fact that the Torch was an android was rarely referred to and “forgotten” within a few issues of the Torch’s debut. Thomas has mentioned in various interviews that he didn’t even know the Torch was an android until the final issue of Marvel Mystery Comics (circa 1949), which contained a story retelling the Torch’s creation. I haven’t read many of the Torch’s Golden Age stories, and none of his 1950s stories, so I don’t know if Roy’s assessment is entirely accurate; but the Torch was usually shown to have functioned like a human being: he would eat, sleep and drink. I even think he had a girlfriend back then!

Sharon: Okay, so the Vision is missing and Hank deduces only an insider could have facilitated the infiltration of the Avengers’ network. As if on cue, Mockingbird (who’s estranged from Hawkeye) shows up.

To be continued…

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The Vision: The Way We Were - Avengers 58 (Part 2)

2009-02-27T11:15:00.000-06:00

Avengers #58 (November 1968)

“Even An Android Can Cry”

Roy Thomas - writer

John Buscema - artist

George Klein - inker

Part 2

Karen: So the $64 million dollar question is: is the Vision more human or more machine? I’ve always felt he was more human, based on not only Hank Pym’s description -that he was basically human in every way, except made of synthetic materials – but also the obvious displays of emotion he’s shown over the years, particularly when it came to his love for Wanda. I know we’ll be talking about Byrne’s mechanizing of Vizh in some later posts, but I think anyone who really read these early stories would see that the Vision is essentially (as Hank says) a man trapped in an artificial body. But somehow we got away from all that, really starting with Roger Stern’s Ultimate Vision storyline (issues 243-254 or thereabouts). Although Vision displays emotion there, we also see him exhibit more mechanical traits, as he mentally links with a computer, Isaac of Titan, and goes a bit mad. That theme, of being a mechanical being, has continued through all later versions of the character – even Kurt Busiek’s in volume three, and I thought Busiek got Vizh better than most.

Doug: I have always thought just the opposite, Karen! To me, his red skin, the “hollow voice” (always done convincingly with the square yellow word balloons), and the simple fact that he is a construct always put the machine before the man. I, as a youngster, always saw Vizh as a fish out of water when it came to dealing with his emotions. That he had emotions didn’t really bother me – that he displayed loyalty, anger, leadership, even angst – those seemed fine. But, throw in his pining for Wanda and I just thought that was weird. And then when they were married – I’m sorry, I can understand a lot about human love and relationships, but a human and an artificial construct is just too much for me to wrap my mind around.

Sharon: Okay, so you can accept the Vision has emotions…why exclude the emotion of love? I think that was the whole purpose of giving him the “brain patterns” of a human was to establish that the Vision had a human mind trapped in a synthetic body. So it was kind of expected that at some point, Vision would fall in love.

Sharon: And I think it’s Wanda who comes off as weird or maladjusted, when she (a couple of years later) meets and falls in love with the Vision. She very clearly knows he’s a synthozoid from the start. But it’s in character with how I’ve always seen her and how she was presented for much of the 1960s: cloistered and overly protected, a beautiful but very insecure, fragile and naïve woman who was not experienced with men (unlike, say, Jan or Natasha). In my eyes, the Vision represented a safe haven for Wanda; he was not like other men (to say the least!). I may be getting ahead of myself here, but I hope we will explore this topic in greater detail at a later date!

Doug: Well, Sharon, you went where I was gently trying NOT to go! While I wouldn’t exclude love from the range of the Vision’s emotions, it was the physical relationship between he and Wanda which I felt (still feel) is perverse. There – I said it! I guess, and there’s no way not to be crass about it, a relationship with the Vision would be somewhat akin (talking aside) to a relationship with an Inflatable Suzy! Ugh – I really didn’t want to go there…

Karen: Wow, I don’t see it that way at all! I mean, a blow-up doll isn’t sentient. It can’t feel anything. Doug, I’m confused how you can accept that Vizh has emotions and yet feel disgust over his need to love and be loved – surely one of the finest emotions a human can have? I guess I look on his artificialness as similar to a person with artificial limbs – except in his case, everything is artificial!

Doug: Karen, you just repeated my point – “everything is artificial”. I’d said just prior that while I can accept love as one of his emotions, my problem (I am beginning to sound like Pietro!) is in the physical relationship between Vizh and Wanda. I don’t think the analogy with a person who has a prosthesis works here. Maybe we are moving toward more of a theological discussion – What is a person? Plastic and wires aren’t human attributes – that does not mean that the Vision doesn’t have any human attributes, but it was after all told for years that he was cold and calculating with a computer mind. He was not a tabula rasa from the beginning but was instead imprinted with a defined set of beliefs, emotions, etc. He is an artificial construct, not composed of flesh and blood and therefore is, in the end, an object. I know that sounds cold… Would I accept him as a teammate? Yes, as Luke and Han accepted C-3PO and R2-D2 as teammates. And although more robotic than the Vision, I would say they loved and were loved by the rest of the cast. But I don’t think anyone wanted to sleep with them.

Karen: I want to save some of this for the posts we’ll do on what Byrne did to the Vision. But I’d argue there are big differences between the Vision and C-3PO (even bigger ones between him and R2-D2)! I see those two characters as being part of the team much the way the Batmobile is part of Batman’s ‘family’, or in a more generous way, the way Silver is part of the Lone Ranger’s team. They certainly are not considered equals by the Star Wars crew, and I think most of the Avengers have always treated Vizh as an equal. Or at least they did, back in the day.

Karen: As for Wanda and Vision’s relationship, I always thought it was analogous to mixed race relationships, which were much more frowned upon back even in the 70s.

Doug: Again, people are people – I would not argue from that point of view.

Sharon: Karen, I agree with you about the race angle; it was a subject that needed exploring and sadly, during that time pairing Wanda with the Vision was far less controversial than pairing her with, say, T’Challa would have been; Vizh-Wanda was clearly “fiction.” And later on, in a letter column in the early 70s, Steve Englehart likened Pietro’s role in the Wanda-Vizh love story to of Archie Bunker’s: a bigot.

Karen: Today’s Vision, lately of Young Avengers, and now of Mighty Avengers, does not have the same personality as our old Vizh. He is really the armor of Iron Lad (the future Kang), imbued with young Kang’s personality and the data files of the original Vision. Our Vision, the stalwart Avenger for decades, is still a pile of debris in a crate somewhere. I can’t understand why this great hero has been treated so poorly by Marvel. I can only hope that someone (Dan Slott, are you listening?) decides to champion his cause and bring him back.

Sharon: I agree, Karen; the current shabby treatment of the Vision is puzzling, to say the least. You know, in our previous entry for Avengers #57, I had questioned why Roy didn’t just have Natasha or Dane Whitman join the Avengers, if he (Roy) wanted to expand the ranks. After reading #58 it hit me that the Rascally One wanted a blank slate, a tabula rasa, a character that he could shape from the get go. The Vision belonged to Roy and no one else. The aforementioned last panel of #58 left no doubt that the Vision was being groomed to play a starring role in the Avengers. And slowly but surely he did. In about a year and half, after Hank had left the team and T’Challa had became a part-time Avenger, it was the Vision who became the de facto field leader (when the Big Three were not present of course). And as Karen mentioned in our previous entry, at some point the Vision even occupied the coveted corner box spot on the cover of the Avengers!

Doug: Despite our differences above, I would like to applaud Roy Thomas, John Buscema, et al. for giving us this magnificent character – how many comic characters can be discussed with this range of depth politically, biologically, emotionally, theologically, historically, and any other –ally you can come up with?! And we haven’t even gotten to John Byrne yet…

Karen: I don’t think I’ll ever forgive Byrne for what he did to the Vision.

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The Vision: The Way We Were - Avengers 58 (Part 1)

2009-02-20T11:00:00.000-06:00

Avengers #58 (November 1968)

“Even An Android Can Cry”

Roy Thomas - writer

John Buscema - artist

George Klein - inker

Karen: Welcome to the second part of our look at the first appearance of the Vision. This issue delves into the Vision’s creation by Ultron, and indeed, the creation of Ultron as well. We also get the first big grouping of Avengers, including the Big Three, since Avengers Annual # 1, I believe.

Doug: I don’t have it right in front of me, but I recall Thor and Iron Man being on the cover (a GREAT Buscema cover with Goliath) of #51, where Goliath regains his growth powers. If I recall, their role inside was not nearly what it is in this issue. But you’re right – this is a wonderful grouping, lacking only Hercules, Wanda, Pietro, and the frequently-guesting Black Widow.

Sharon: By the this time, Wanda, Pietro and Hercules were no longer with the team…and as explained in #57, Natasha had taken up with SHIELD again. As for Cap, Thor and Iron Man, Roy Thomas tried to work them in as much as possible, despite Stan’s preference that they not be included in the Avengers (mostly because Stan didn’t want their Avengers escapades to conflict with what was going on in their own series). So the Big Three would pop up here and there…as Doug mentioned, Thor and Iron Man took part in the action in #51, and Cap showed up in #56 and Annual #2. In #58, the trio function as the elder statesmen.

Karen: I always thought it was odd that Stan wanted to keep the Big Three out of the book, since (ostensibly) they would be the biggest draws and likely to improve sales. Hey, perhaps this shows that, unlike the current heads of Marvel, money was not always the prime motivator of decisions!

Karen: Cap decides to test the Vision with a little impromptu combat, and Iron Man and Thor follow suit. I love how Hawkeye is the only one to figure out that Cap is simply testing the new applicant – the relationship between Cap and Hawkeye has to be one of my favorites in all of comics.

Doug: It’s a fun battle, and a great way to show off the Vision’s powers. Of course, we’d seen these powers on display in the previous issue, but certainly not in the context of pitched battle against two of the mightiest Avengers! And, I too, loved the smirk on ol’ Hawk’s face.

Karen: After much effort, the Vision is able to recall his ‘birth’ at the hands of Ultron. Ultron treats him cruelly, not even giving him a name. Unlike Steve Englehart’s later interpretation, here Ultron’s attitude towards the Vision is that of a master towards a slave, not a father (albeit a terrible one) towards his son. That definitely evolved later on.

Doug: I’ve personally always found this odd, and at times overbearing. Yes, I understand the whole Oedipal angle of it, and it was never better than in the “Bride of Ultron” 4-parter. I guess where it was most annoying was in the early pages of West Coast Avengers, when Ultron often mockingly referred to Dr. Pym as “Daddy”.

Doug: Additionally, am I correct in understanding that Ultron was Hank’s version of a synthozoid? It seems quite strange, then, that this mechanical construct would manifest himself as a robot rather than a humanoid. Sure, he claims to loathe Pym and humanity – why then did he create the Vision as a humanoid? Additionally again, is it a stretch to believe that this robot could basically create life from scratch (obviously we don’t yet know that the Vision is the Original Human Torch) in only the space of several months?

Karen: I would agree, Ultron doesn’t seem to fit the bill for a synthozoid, but there is that implication. Maybe he was simply an initial step? Of course exploring the Vision’s past lead to Pym trying to recall the details about his efforts to construct his own synthozoid – and he realized he couldn’t remember a thing! The Avengers head to Pym’s boarded –up lab and then the whole Ultron story is complete: Pym created Ultron, who turned the tables on him and erased the incident from his mind! While this sounds a little corny, it actually came across pretty well. We see the beginnings of Ultron’s Oedipal Complex in his complete contempt for Pym. This is also one of the events that lead to Pym’s later emotional/psychological issues.

Doug: Hank’s brain-train wrecks pretty quickly from here on out…

Sharon: In terms of the flashbacks, a couple of things bothered an old continuity geek like me. First, Hank mentions the fight with the Dragon Man that occurred-- in his words-- “the other day”…this would have placed these events just after #42 or so. But in the flashback he’s wearing his more recent red and blue costume instead of the yellow and blue one he’d sported back when they fought Dragon Man (and for some months thereafter).

Sharon: Then, when Iron Man tells the tale of Wonder Man, within IM’s narrative Cap refers to Giant-Man as “Hank.” But back then (Avengers #9), Giant-Man’s civilian identity was not known, and certainly not to Cap—because in Avengers #28 Cap’s surprised that “High Pockets” turns out to be Pym! Well, I guess these minor inconsistencies can be excused as “memory lapses”, since we’re not dealing with infallible, omniscient narrators here.

Karen: The final piece of the puzzle for the Vision is discovering that his brain patterns are based on those of Wonder Man (who was then believed to be dead). It’s a lot of information to take in –as Roy has him ponder, “I wonder – is it possible to be ‘basically human’?” One of these days (maybe soon, since I’m working on an Ultron article) I’d like to ask Roy why he chose to include the Wonder Man aspect in the Vision’s story? Was it really essential to giving him his ‘human bonafides’?

Sharon: That’s a very good question. Why connect him to Wonder Man, who was pretty much forgotten at that point? Wasn’t Ultron’s involvement exciting enough? Back in 1968 I’d only been reading the Avengers for about a year prior to this issue, so I had no previous knowledge of Wonder Man or the events in Avengers #9. So this development, which involved a long-ago minor character, seemed to come out of the blue. Later on, when I started collecting back issues and saw there’s been no mention of Wondy since #9, I felt cheated by #58 and the notion that these events had occurred off-panel.

Doug: Does anyone truly know what a “brain pattern” is? Has this ever been addressed. Because Vizh never had Simon Williams’ personality or memories. So what does it mean?

Sharon: Another good question. I think the vague notion of “brain patterns” was meant to establish that a human mind (not necessarily Simon’s personality or traits) had been grafted into the Vision’s synthetic brain.

Karen: I think Sharon is correct, although later on, Busiek tried to show that Vizh and Simon had some similar personality traits. But initially, I assume Roy meant for that to be a way to allow Vizh to have emotions and set up his internal conflicts. Of course many people have noted a similarity between the Vision and Mr. Spock, from Star Trek. Although I would submit that Vizh was more like the Tin Man from the Wizard of Oz – always bemoaning the fact that he can’t feel!

Sharon: Busiek wrote an unforgettable great scene in volume 3: Vizh and Simon discover their mutual love for Walt Kelly’s Pogo—among other things. The way it was presented, you could just “hear” their dialogue overlapping…wonderfully effective sequence.

Karen: Of course the Avengers decide to approve Vizh for membership, which gives us possibly the finest piece of artwork ever to appear in comics: the full-page shot of the Vision, overcome with emotion, holding his head as a single tear trickles down his plastic cheek. Buscema’s work has such quiet power to it, helped immensely by Klein’s inks and zip-a-tone background. It is one of the most memorable scenes in all of comics, in my opinion.

Doug: Not only is the panel to which you refer dynamite, but there are two other full team splashes included in this issue, either of which would be worthy of a poster or print of some sort.

Sharon: Both images were indeed magnificent. Buscema was at his best when drawing gatherings of characters- - just one of many reasons he was the perfect Avengers artist! But with the first picture—featuring the then-current Avengers along with prospective member Vision--I couldn’t help but wonder why Jan was wearing what seemed to be a winter ensemble in an issue that came out in September. She looked like a slim Mrs. Santa or a giant elf.

Sharon: The other full-page picture referred to was even more impressive; I loved seeing the gone but not forgotten Wanda, Pietro, and Hercules. They’d also just appeared in the recent Avengers Annual #2 pin-up and I was glad that Roy (and John!) remembered them. Natasha was included here, though, at the time of #58 she had never officially accepted membership; and I was even more puzzled by Spider-Man’s inclusion. Roy does explain (through Thor) that these were not only official Avengers but also heroes who’d fought alongside the Avengers (so where was the Black Knight? Was Thor unacquainted with the recent events of #54-55?). And given that this was supposed to be a visual embodiment of Thor’s words, I can see why the Swordsman wasn’t included, since his tenure—at that time-- had not exactly been honorable.

(to be continued)

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The Vision: The Way We Were - Avengers #57

2009-02-13T11:49:00.000-06:00

Avengers 57 (October 1968)

“Behold…the Vision!”

Roy Thomas -writer

John Buscema – Artist

George Klein – inker

Karen: In this post we’re going to discuss the first appearance of the Vision: at one time, one of the mainstays of the Avengers, but in recent years, a minor character at best. Actually the Vision currently running around in the Marvel Universe is the Vision in name only. His personality/identity is not the same as the original character. That hero is pretty much gone – forever?

Sharon: And actually the Vision Karen refers to- - the Vision we all know and love- - was not even the first Vision on the scene. There was an earlier Vision who debuted in the Golden Age; the earlier Vision was a Simon-Kirby creation that graced Timely’s Marvel Mystery Comics.

Sharon: Roy Thomas has stated in interviews that he was reluctant to create brand new characters in the Silver Age because back then, he wouldn’t have owned the character…and he says he would have felt cheated if “his” characters were used for marketing or merchandising without him reaping any monetary rewards (as would have been the case). Hence, his propensity to reuse older characters’ names and elements, such as the Black Knight and as here, the Vision. So when Stan asked Roy to introduce a new Avenger, Roy based the new character (at least visually and name-wise) on the older Vision. There were some changes; for example, Roy made the new Vision red-skinned (the earlier one had light green skin, I believe). Also, Stan wanted the new Avenger to be an android, so Roy incorporated this element as per Stan’s wishes.

Sharon: Now, a couple of months earlier, over at DC in Justice League of America # 64 (cover-dated August 1968), Julius Schwartz and Gardner Fox had introduced a new character called the Red Tornado—who had the same name as a Golden Age DC character. What’s more, the new Red Tornado had red skin…and was an android…

Karen: Right, and there’s always been debate over the X-Men and the Doom Patrol, both teams of outcast heroes, who appeared just about 4 months apart in 1963, and DC was first there too. But I tend to think that was also a case of coincidence.

Sharon: In their debut appearance, the Doom Patrol’s tagline was “the World’s Strangest Heroes!” The X-Men did them one better; on the cover of their debut issue Marvel’s mighty mutants were heralded as the “The Strangest Super-Heroes of All!”

Karen: Some ideas just occur in a number of places around the same time. Who knows what outside trends or forces shape these things?

Karen: But back to the Vision. In his heyday, he was one of the most popular Avengers, with many storylines revolving around him. He even got the corner spot on the cover for years! The Vision has been a favorite character of mine since I first started reading comics. I came across him initially in Avengers 92, and from that point I was hooked. Of course, this was at the start of the Kree-Skrull War and the romance between the Vision and the Scarlet Witch was becoming more prominent. So Vizh got a good portion of the spotlight and his angst was appealing to a young reader like me.

Doug: I am trying to remember my first Vision meeting! I think it must have been somewhere around the Celestial Madonna arc, or before. Among my first Avengers issues were 119, 120, 130, 131, and GS 2 and 3. The Vision was featured prominently in all of the above stories. My most shocking memory of him, however, was the beach scene during he and Wanda’s honeymoon, as shown in Avengers #137. It had never occurred to this young reader that his skin was red all over!

Sharon: I know what you mean. Back in Avengers #92, he’s wearing civilian clothes (turtleneck sweater, slacks, shoes, etc.) over his uniform, so I’d always thought his uniform—at least the green sections—was part of him and that Ultron had designed him that way.

Karen: But let’s turn to Avengers 57. Of course, it has a beautiful, memorable cover, by the great John Buscema. The interior art is also exceptional. George Klein’s inks give every figure a real sense of depth and the use of lighting and shadows sets a somber tone.

Sharon: George Klein had long been Curt Swan’s steady inker on Superman at DC for years, but when Klein and some other veteran freelancers asked DC for benefits—what nerve! --- DC promptly fired them! Luckily over at Marvel, Stan had work for Klein, a plum assignment inking Buscema on the Avengers. To me, Klein will always be the definitive John Buscema inker; just as he did for Swan, Klein brought out the classic look of Buscema’s pencils and made Buscema’s pencils look even more beautiful than they already were. Unfortunately, Klein died some months later; he was only in his fifties.

Karen: It’s a shame, his work was so strong. His use of zip-a-tone reminds me of Tom Palmer.

Doug: I first saw this issue as a reprint inside Marvel Treasury Edition #7. Although my mom didn’t purchase it for me that day at the store, the initial story images made quite an impression! If you think Buscema’s great-looking on the standard sized comic page, you can imagine how great he is on the larger paper.

Karen: The plot of the issue, for those who might have missed it, is this: The Vision appears and attacks the Wasp, then passes out. Later, he is examined by the team and regains consciousness. He wishes to be allies. They discover he was sent by Ultron, and the team goes right into a trap. The Vision seemingly defeats the robot, but we are left with many questions.

Sharon: Okay…so many years later we learn that Ultron is based on Hank’s brain patterns, and here Ultron sends the Vision to attack Jan…well, let’s just say it’s no surprise that all was not bliss for this couple!

Sharon: Speaking of troubled relationships, it was nice to see the Black Widow make an appearance and have some interaction with Hawkeye. She’d been a mainstay of the book from #29-#44, and then pfft! she was reduced to sporadic, cameo appearances (as here). I have often wondered why Roy didn’t make her an Avenger after #44, but I guess he grew tired of her. Surely her abilities were sort of similar to T’Challa’s (who’d joined in #52), and what’s more, she had a real history with the team.

Doug: Roy did a nice job of revealing the Vision’s powers. We first got a hint of his intangibility when the comment was made that the rain didn’t touch him. Next we saw flight, and then the solar-powered eye beams. Intangibility was further on display when he came through the wall after the Wasp had fled behind a locked door. By the way, and I think we’ve discussed this on the Avengers Assemble! boards, but what did you think of panel 7 on page 3? Clearly, that isn’t Buscema’s art. Did I read somewhere that Marie Severin did a touch-up on this? It’s certainly not Romita’s work.

Sharon: Yes, it’s Severin and you probably read it in the same place I did: the Roy Thomas interview in Alter Ego a few years back. She redid the panel; according to Roy, it was because Stan wanted the Vision, who was phasing through a wall, to have a more intangible look (than what Buscema had drawn). Since Marie was on staff and was usually at the Marvel office, she often did touch ups/rework like this.

Doug: I also thought Hank Pym was treated very well in this story. The plot to have him scale the outside wall of Janet’s building, a la King Kong, was fun. Buscema also showed a little stretching of the conventional panel lay-out by having no borders on several panels and allowing the characters to stretch their bounds. Of course, this was about to become more common as Adams, Steranko, and Colan unleashed themselves of the four-sided constraints.

Karen: There is a sense of mystery to the Vision here – even after we discover that he has been created by Ultron 5, we still do not know all the whys and wherefores. Despite initially appearing as a villain, the reader quickly comes to sympathize with the confused android – or should I say synthozoid? For as Hank Pym puts it, that is what the Vision is: a synthetic human. “He’s every inch a human being…except that all his bodily organs are constructed of synthetic materials!” That’s something to keep in mind as we delve further into the subject.

Sharon: The Red Tornado was sent by his creator, T.O. Morrow, to destroy the Justice Society…then Reddy has a change of heart and sides with the heroes, and questions his very existence…

Sharon: Not that I’m trying to cast aspersions on Roy’s integrity. J When JLA #64 hit the stands, Avengers #57 was already in its production stages, so I assume any similarities were coincidental or accidental. Despite the public image of DC and Marvel being mortal enemies, it’s known that the talent from DC and Marvel fraternized, so who knows what information went back and forth?

Doug: In the fight scene between the awakened, recharged Vision and the team, super strength and the ability to control his density is also shown. I felt Buscema was really at his peak here with facial expressions. That attention to detail, of individualizing each character’s look, seemed to be a lost art until George Perez took an interest in it during his stint on Avengers volume 3. Overall, I am certain that I would have greeted this new and mysterious character with open arms.

Karen: This issue is mostly set-up for next issue, where much of the Vision’s past (although not all by a longshot!) will be explained.

Doug: What did you think of Ultron? In hindsight, I love the way he leapt to major-villain status almost immediately. But was the end that he met in this issue appropriate, or even plausible, for one seemingly so powerful?

Sharon: The ending certainly was poetic- - get it, because of Shelley’s Ozymandias…oh, never mind. You just knew Ultron would be back…

Karen: I actually had to memorize that poem in high school, but of course I was already familiar with it from reading Avengers! But on to Ultron: of course, this was his second time battling the Avengers, the first being back in issues 54-55, where he initially posed as the Crimson Cowl. We get his backstory in issue 58, the subject of our next post. I’ve always thought he was at least in the top 2 of Avengers villains; it’s hard to choose between him and Kang! But Ultron has such personal connections with the team, I always felt the emotional ante was upped when he was the foe.

Here they are! Your Marvel Bullpen Stamps for this post!!

Collect 'em all!!

Family Matters: The Fantastic Four's Triumphs and Tribulations, part 4

2009-02-06T15:37:00.000-06:00

Part 4:3 – Breaking Up is Hard to Do

Fantastic Four # 149

August 1974

“To Love, Honor, and Destroy!”

Gerry Conway, Rich Buckler, and Joe Sinnott

Doug: What a great splash page! As we go through these issues, I find Rich Buckler to be either home run or so-so. I really think this splash, with its triangular orientation of figures, the dynamic poses, and the intensity of Namor’s posture to be fine rendering. Sue looks good, the lackey looks menacing, and you just can’t beat a good ol’ battle cry: Imperius Rex!

Doug: Hmmm… about Page 2. Reed’s in character – tense, willing to fight (although as my colleagues have argued in prior postings, is it “too little, too late”?), Ben’s for the most part in character… but something about Johnny’s take throughout this has bothered me. I have wondered where the “blood is thicker than water” instinct is. To me, Johnny should have remained loyal to Sue. I understand why Ben has stuck with Reed, and Medusa is caught in the middle but with her loyalty being toward service to the team. Johnny just seems a little dense in regard to the magnitude of the decision Reed made about Franklin.

Karen: Well, Johnny’s always been a bit dense, hasn’t he? What really creeped me out was his thought in the previous issue, about a sister being “almost as close as a wife”. Uck.

Doug: Medusa using a little of that “woman’s intuition”? What did you think about her line that Namor has never been vicious? Hel-lo!! Ever read any Golden Age books, Sweetie?

Karen: The whole thing with Medusa is odd, until the reveal at the end. This picks up on the Medusa-Torch story from a few issues back, where they were going to the Hidden Land, because Blackbolt had called for her - hmm, they never did get to Attilan. Geez, Conway really did drop a lot of plot threads!

Sharon: Let me get this straight—back in FF#145, Reed tells Medusa he received a message for her from Black Bolt about a “Project Revival.” In light of the reveal in #149, it seems like the mention in #145 was supposed to be a signal to her that this plan is being set in motion. So why does she act like she’s all of a sudden figuring things out in #149?

Sharon: And if “Project Revival” was a really plan to get Sue and Namor back together, why did Reed tell her Black Bolt wanted her back in Attilan, and why did she go through the trouble of dragging Johnny along with her? And then after the mayhem that ensued (in #145 and #146), their trip to Attilan was then dropped—so poor Johnny didn’t get to see his beloved Crystal before her wedding after all. It appears Stan was not the only one with the faulty memory back then, eh, Roy Thomas (editor) and Gerry Conway (writer)?

Doug: As the battle begins, I’m thinking of that mid-80’s series Damage Control. When these super-powered types get after it, there is a lot of destruction that takes place! And how about the taxpayer bill, for the police, etc.?

Karen: Apparently folks like Blackbolt and Namor don’t concern themselves over such things – I mean, why have Sue and Reed sit down and talk when you can destroy half the city instead?

Doug: “Sue’s force field – It appeared so suddenly, there was no time to swerve away!” Umm… appeared?

Karen: Reed must have had his special invisibility detecting glasses on….

Doug: I thought Ben’s trip down memory lane was well-crafted and a very nice addition to the story. Sometimes I don’t care for flashbacks – seems they just take up space. But this fits perfectly, and Buckler’s art reflects an early Silver Age feel during these panels.

Sharon: Buckler does a nice job here recreating the Kirby scenes from FF #4—an instance in which swiping is appropriate and is, in fact, expected.

Doug: There are some really outstanding splashes and two-page splashes in this little arc.

Doug: As for the battle, I became aware that most of the fighting was mano a mano – not a lot of property destruction. It began to seem like something was amiss. Although no one on the FF’s side ever spoke of Namor pulling his punches, I just had to wonder what was really going on.

Doug: The conversation between Ben and Sue was great – in my opinion, this type of writing is lacking in many of today’s comics. These panels conveyed a history between these two characters, a depth of emotion that seemed real. Today’s comics often just run from battle to battle with a cheesecake shot in between with no real concern for character development.

Karen: I’d agree that I’d like more interaction between characters in today’s team books, but honestly, Sue’s reaction to Ben’s comments just seemed a little too convenient. She’s felt that Reed is distant and neglectful, but because he’s willing to fight over her, suddenly she’s back in love with him? Then again, people are unpredictable emotionally. So I’ll let it pass.

Doug: The big reveal at the end was a nice surprise, although I did feel that Medusa’s role in it remained unclear and somewhat clumsily handled. It was good to see Triton, and the proximity of this story to the coming wedding of Crystal and Quicksilver seemed to dovetail nicely.

Karen: Yes, the whole Project Revival idea here (with the Inhumans and Namor teaming up to get Reed and Sue back together) seems about half-baked. Namor in particular seems out of character. It feels like Conway didn’t have a good idea of how to achieve the couple’s reconciliation, so he just threw in a big fight and poof! They love each other again.

Doug: Overall, this last arc was a fun, sentimental read. Looking at it in a short timeframe, I’m still uncertain as to why Conway chose to insert the Frightful Four fight in between the stories in #147 and #149 – perhaps that was the only vehicle he could think of to get Thundra into #149? And she proved indispensable to the events concluding this issue, as Conway chose Ben to be the one to reason with Sue – someone had to occupy Namor so that Ben could steal away.

Doug: As to an impression of this entire series, it has really been a nice trip through Marvel history, and is a summation of why Marvel has for years been (in my opinion) so far ahead of DC. Marvel took the time to craft an inter-related universe with “real” characters – people with feelings, emotions of pride and resentment, and life events that occur in the everyday world.

Karen: It seems to me that the Reed – Sue breakup started out pretty well, but sort of fell apart here at the end. The early issues (even before the ones we reviewed) gave good reasons why the split occurred –particularly after Reed zapped Franklin. But these later issues never truly felt solid; they seemed to be poorly developed. While attempting this type of subject matter was laudable, the execution of the story was lacking.

Karen: And speaking of Franklin – where the heck was he all this time? Sitting inside Namor’s ‘Tomazooma’ fortress? I’m surprised Sue would let him out of her sight!

Sharon: Maybe she made him invisible, to keep him out of harm’s way? ;)

Family Matters: The Fantastic Four's Triumphs and Tribulations, part 4

2009-01-30T09:52:00.000-06:00

Part 4:2 – Marital counseling – Marvel Style

Fantastic Four # 148

July 1974

“War on the Thirty-Sixth Floor!”

Gerry Conway, Rich Buckler, and Joe Sinnott

Doug: Near the end of this story, Gerry Conway refers to this issue as an “interlude”, “a brief respite… between one tempest of emotions and the next”. Boy, would I agree! This story, while OK, just comes at the reader right out of nowhere. Not having read this in many a year, I’d forgotten that this was a part of our little Subby hate-fest!

Karen: I don’t know why this story was in #148. It makes no sense to me. If he wanted to do a Frightful Four story, why not put it in 149? I’d love to know why it was felt necessary to wedge this in between the parts of the Namor story, because it really feels awkward.

Doug: I guess the standout points in the story are the plot gaps. From the splash page on, I have several bones to pick – we don’t know why the FF left Namor’s undersea fortress, we don’t know how the sideplanes on the Fantasticar were restored (Johnny had intentionally wrecked one when attacking Namor), we don’t know how the Frightful Four infiltrated the Baxter Building, and we don’t know why or how Thundra shows up to rescue the FF (even though Reed specifically asked her). So while this book is a fun battle royale between the FF and some classic villains, it seems to be in the way of the greater, more pressing resolution of the Reed/Sue/Franklin/Namor situation.

Karen: Doesn’t it seem weird how Thundra keeps popping up during Conway’s run? Every time she shows up, she makes some statement about how she’s going to eventually beat the crap out of Ben, then helps the FF, and disappears! I wonder if Gerry or Roy really knew where they were going with her.

Sharon: It would have been interesting if the powers that be had developed a Ben-Thundra romance, or at least played up an attraction.

Doug: We’ve mentioned other writers’ “pets” – Englehart’s use of Mantis, etc. Perhaps Thundra was Conway’s pet character.

Doug: I thought the Sandman was done really well in this story. Conway did a pretty good job with the dialogue between ol’ Flint and the Thing. The Trapster and the Wizard, on the other hand – I just can never seem to take these two guys seriously. I just know that it is only a matter of time (and usually a short time) before they get their butts kicked!

Karen: Agreed – Wizard always came across to me as a third-rate Reed, and a whiner to boot. As for Trapster, I could never figure out how a guy with the apparent IQ of a honey dew melon could devise all those gadgets. The only time the Frightful Four seemed like a legitimate threat was when they brainwashed the Thing, which says a lot more about the Thing than it does about these villains.

Sharon: The inclusion of the Frightful Four just seemed like Marvel’s (Roy’s?) calculated way of evoking the “good old days”, back around FF #36 (the intro of Frightful Four and Medusa…which led to the Inhumans, Silver Surfer, Black Panther, and so on…the timeframe which many feel were the glory days of the FF).

Doug: The ending 2-page splash with Namor was impressive, and I suppose more so because of the interlude. Maybe this was Conway’s method of allowing not only the team, but the readers, to recharge before the grand finale.

Karen: This issue doesn’t progress the Reed-Sue story at all; it’s basically one long fight scene. It’s a shame; I would have liked to have seen more introspection on the part of our fabulous foursome. Maybe some behind the scenes stuff with Sue and Namor too. All in all, this issue doesn’t have much to recommend it.

Karen: However, there is one thing, completely unrelated to our story, that I wanted to comment on. Near the back of the book is a full page about Marvel Value Stamps, those wonderful and horrible little treats whose removal ruined many a good comic (including so many of yours truly). The article says you could buy a Marvel Value Stampbook for 50 cents. If I can take a nostalgic moment here, I remember getting that stampbook, and the joy my little heart felt as I dutifully cut apart my comics and pasted the stamps in the book. I never did get all 100 though. If you were diligent enough to get all of them, you could get discounts on admission to the New York and San Diego comic conventions. I do recall seeing a photo of Roy Thomas with a group of stampbook completists at some con. Unfortunately though I think that was about all the rewards that were offered. I can’t help but wonder how many books were damaged by those of us seeking our golden ticket.

Doug: Marvel Value Stamps – the bane of many a Bronze-Agers existence! If you would like to further discourse on this and other ‘70’s defeats, I would be happy to engage you in that conversation, Karen! Sounds like a future topic!

Family Matters: The Fantastic Four's Triumphs and Tribulations, part 4

2009-01-23T18:00:00.000-06:00

Part 4:1 – Do You Know Where Your Woman Is Tonight?

Fantastic Four # 147

June 1974

“The Sub-Mariner Strikes!”

Gerry Conway, Rich Buckler, and Joe Sinnott

Doug: As a bridge between the gut-wrenching story we’ve just taken a look at (albeit a long look – but it was fun!) and the story we’re next interested in (FF #’s 147-149), here’s a very brief look at events involving Reed/Sue/Franklin over the intervening two story arcs.

Doug: The issues from 142-146 are not without their significance in their own right – we see the introduction of Darkoth the Death-Demon on #142, the beginning of Rich Buckler’s tenure as penciller on the title (and his quick transition to a “Kirbyish” style), a great Doctor Doom entrance (copied (?) in The Empire Strikes Back) that leads into a mediocre two-parter in #’s 143-144, and Ross Andru as guest-penciller in #’s 145-146.

Sharon: Regarding the Dr. Doom entrance, it was copied all right—but not exactly in the way you think. This is a clear swipe of a Jack Kirby panel from Fantastic Four #87! I’ll get to Rich Buckler’s—ahem—“homage” to Kirby later on in this entry, but as for The Empire Strikes Back—as many are aware, there have been theories and arguments raging for decades about whether Kirby’s work influenced George Lucas and his Star Wars films. But that is a topic for another day…

Doug: Issue #142 gives us a recap of the events at the end of the previous story, mostly as related by Ben. Johnny has interaction with an old classmate of Reed’s, who happens to coach football at Metro U. Sue drives Franklin back to the farm where she’d sought refuge some issues before (only to have been kidnapped by Agatha Harkness). Other than that, most of the issue is a battle royale between Ben and Darkoth, and further revelations on Alicia Masters’ attempt to have her eyesight restored. One might also question if Medusa wasn’t in romantic pursuit of Reed in this issue as well. Another thing: I found it odd that Reed’s classmate, Coach Thorne, when laying eyes up Doom, acted as if he’d never seen the good Doctor. Must never watch the news or pick up a paper…

Doug: Issue #143 really doesn’t address the Sue/Franklin subplot, other than to show a 3-panel shot of Sue lamenting that she can trust no one after what Reed did – NO ONE! By the way, Giacoia’s inks over Buckler in this book leave a lot to be desired as compared to Sinnott’s!!

Karen: I’ll second that – Giacoia’s inks look rough and unfinished compared to Sinnott’s.

Sharon: Agreed, Buckler’s work looks terrible here. His pencils usually need a lot of help in the inking stage, and while I think Giacoia’s is a very good inker, Giacoia’s linework is too delicate for Buckler. Or look at the Buckler/Chic Stone combo in Giant-Size FF #4: is grotesque too strong a word? To look good Buckler usually needs a “slick” inker like Sinnott—or even a Dan Adkins (in Giant-Size Avengers #1), both of whom really add a polish to his pencils.

Doug: And that’s about it… Issues 144-146 were basically throwaways if you ask me. For Conway having been on the top of his game in the story we reviewed over the past two weeks, and returning to the summit with our next arc, he sure took some creative “time off” over these five months.

Karen: That’s putting it kindly, Doug. These issues were mediocre. Even the Dr. Doom story was boring.

Doug: Personally, I’m really excited to discuss this particular issue – the arc, too, but more for this story. When I was a youngster we moved away from my hometown due to a change in jobs. I was fortunate that I was able to find some new friends who shared my budding interest in comics. I really hit it off with one friend in particular, and he had this issue. FF #147 had to be perhaps only the fourth or fifth issue of the magazine I’d ever read. So, with a limited background I was just wide-eyed at the emotion of this tale – even as a not-quite-8-year old, I knew that this was big stuff. The fight early on between Ben, Johnny, and Namor was captivating. We had a lot of Megos back then, and we would act out various scenarios we’d seen. I had a Tarzan, and the “newer” Megos had colored briefs under the costumes. A stripped-down Tarzan was our Sub-Mariner!

Doug: But back to the story… As an adult, I can only imagine how painful it must be to be served a divorce summons, as Reed received from Sue. Conway was treading on very mature themes as we head into this story.

Karen: Yes, as we discussed before, I believe these stories from the 70’s were the precursor to our modern day ultra-realism. While on one hand I can appreciate such things, I’m sort of sorry to see mainstream comics turn so unrelentingly negative now. Although perhaps with the change in administrations and the overall resurgence of hope (even in these grim times) we might see comics become more optimistic as well.

Doug: Although the battle scene between Ben and Johnny and Namor was well choreographed, I do find it a little strange that Namor was just lying in wait beneath the waters of that lake. I suppose the flight path to Sue’s friends’ place was pretty well known and even standard, but it was a bit of a stretch on Conway’s part. Too, the asbestos net? Where exactly had Namor hidden that? Seems his outfit lacks a utility belt!

Karen: The details of the story do not bear close inspection!

Doug: A comment on Rich Buckler’s art in this issue – in his first story, #142, either he took pains to emulate John Buscema or Joe Sinnott provided that as a service. In the succeeding few issues, Buckler took on more of the “Kirbyish” appearance; but by the time we roll into this arc I would say he’s walking more on his own two feet. While the Kirby look is still present, there really are some fine looking panels in this story and I think that’s a tribute to Buckler’s growing confidence in himself.

Karen: I always liked Rich Buckler’s work. He was part of a group of very talented young artists and writers- perhaps the second wave of Marvel? – who made their mark in the 70s. I think because he worked on both FF and Thor, the Kirby clone label was applied to him. I mean, anyone being inked by Joe Sinnott is going to look somewhat like Kirby! Look at his other work, such as Deathlok in Astonishing Tales. The guy was a great storyteller and could flat-out draw!

Sharon: Okay. Buckler. So I’m reading FF #147 for the first time, courtesy of Fantastic Four Essentials Volume #7, and I noticed something strange—the panel of Subby carrying Sue in his arms looked awfully familiar. (The FF Essentials #7 does not include page numbers, but for the record the panel I’m referring to appears on page 10, panel 4 of the FF #147 reprint.) I had a strong feeling of déjà vu, I knew I’d seen that panel before—I could vividly picture it in context in another story---and off I raced to FF Annual #1…and sure enough, there it was, in all its Kirbyesque glory, on page 36, panel 1 of the Annual! Buckler had essentially copied the Sue and Namor figures!

Sharon: A tribute to Kirby? Perhaps. But then as I read some of the other Buckler-illustrated stories in FF Essentials #7, I noticed a slew of other such “tributes”, only more creatively done. For example, in #149, take the panel on page 2, panel 4, in which Johnny grabs Medusa by the hand. That’s taken from FF #79, only in the original it’s Johnny grabbing Crystal’s hand.

Sharon: FF #151: the male figure in the first panel on page 8 is based on the Galactus figure on page 2 in FF #49.

Sharon: FF #152: the first panel on page 10 is based on a panel of Crystal being carried off in FF #84.

Sharon: FF #153: the two middle panels on page 6 are based on two panels in FF #19. Also, in #153, on page 7, the middle panel is based on a panel in FF Annual #5. The figure of Medusa in the last panel on page #13 is based on Medusa in a panel from #47.

Sharon: Plus the aforementioned Dr. Doom swipe (in FF #142) from FF #87. And these are just a few of the images I saw right off the bat; I’m sure if I sat down and really inspected these Buckler issues, I’d find tons more. Now of course I knew of Buckler’s reputation as a swipe artist but I’d assumed it just meant he was adept at mimicking styles on demand; certainly, he’s proven he can draw in the style of giants like John Buscema, Neal Adams and Kirby; and from what I’ve read, he was encouraged (by Marvel management) to do so. But I was shocked at the sheer number of very obvious, outright copies of Kirby’s panels.

Sharon: Since I did not read these Buckler issues back when they were first released, and because the Essentials do not contain the letter pages, I have to ask: back when these FF issues hit the stands, did readers comment on his tendency to swipe images from Kirby’s FF? Was there any sort of public acknowledgement by Marvel management of the legitimacy of this “method?”

Doug: WOW!! Sharon, you have some memory! I really had no idea that the swipes were that extensive. You have inspired some research on my part!

Karen: OK...that's just ridiculous.

Doug: Once Ben and Johnny got to the Linders’ home, I felt like there was more to the story than we were being told – Conway’s tangled web, I’m sure. If you think back to Sue’s comment related above, from #143, Namor has been perhaps the only other person besides Reed whom she has had the trust of. It just seemed odd to me that he would have shown up out of the blue – and speaking of blue, why the devil would Sue have been in costume??

Karen: And speaking of costumes, why is that despite the fact Namor has had his blue suit for 30 + years, I still think of it as his “new” suit?! I guess it must have to do with first impressions and all that.

Sharon: This Namor costume was not one of John Romita’s finer creations. For one thing, what was the deal with those Black Bolt-like arm “membrane wings”?

Doug: That’s funny to me, Sharon – I have always much preferred Namor’s blue suit to the green trunks. I always found it odd that a king would walk about nearly naked. I think Romita’s design is very regal. I’ll give you the questionable functionality of the wings – but hey, can we really believe that he can fly on those little ankle wings?

Doug: Reed’s preparation was fun – vintage stuff. The big map, the radiation tracker, the oxy-pills, Johnny’s heat frame… Did anyone else think Namor’s fortress looked like Tomazooma (see FF #80)?

Karen: Much as I like Buckler, that thing was just goofy. It looked more like a giant robot than a fortress! Tomazooma is not far off.

Doug: Well, didn’t Sue drop a bombshell in the last panel? Wow. “You see, Reed – it’s something I’ve always suspected – and now know to be true: I love the Sub-Mariner, and I’m going to stay with him… forever!” I thought Namor’s charges against Reed were very callous, but they jarred Reed. One had to wonder if Sue really did hate Reed for what he’d done to Franklin and if Namor wasn’t the strong sanctuary she had sought. To follow-up on the recollections from my childhood, I have to tell you that I didn’t see issues 148-149 for decades. I personally had a smattering of issues through the #150’s and the first “new” issue I recall buying myself was #160. So by then I knew how this had all turned out. But what a cliffhanger!

Karen: Sue really doesn’t come off too well in these issues. Despite her frustration over not being treated as an equal, she comes across (to me) as a very dependent woman. She leaves Reed, and then turns around and runs off to her fantasy man, Namor. It seems like she was still looking for someone to take care of her and call the shots.

Sharon: As I mentioned when we discussed FF #141-142, during this time Sue comes across as whiny. And hello- - WHY would she put physical distance between herself and probably the only person in the world who could cure Franklin?

Family Matters: The Fantastic Four's Triumphs and Tribulations, part 3 (continued)

2009-01-17T11:55:00.001-06:00

Part Three – Bringing Up Boys, Part II
Fantastic Four #’s 140-41
November-December 1973

“Annihilus Revealed!”
“The End of the Fantastic Four!”
Gerry Conway, John Buscema, and Joe Sinnott

NOTE: Continued from last week’s posting…

Doug: The build-up to the story’s climax was well-conceived, and Annihilus and the Negative Zone were the perfect catalysts. However, I was left somewhat flat with the last page of #141. It seemed like the tale just ended abruptly – like page 20 rolled around and “oops – gotta go!” We’d had a really well-crafted 2-parter with action, tension (lots of tension), great characterization, and then it just ended. Now, I know the fall-out continued over issues #142-149 (147-149 being a classic Sub-Mariner story that really stressed what the FF as a family is all about!), but to just look at these events – I needed one more page in the book, Gerry!!

Karen: I felt the abrupt end to 141 actually worked very well, because the reader is probably expecting Reed to save the day, as usual. When he not only doesn’t, but hurts his own son, it’s quite the shocker. The issues that follow are also worthy of reading, although I felt like Sue running off with Namor undercut her search for independence. I must say that these issues cemented my general dislike of Reed, and in many ways I would have liked seeing Sue dump him permanently for Namor! What woman wouldn’t be attracted to Namor – strong, confident, sexy, and so extremely attentive?

Sharon: It didn’t hurt that Namor was often nearly naked…or swathed in leather, with a bare chest…

Karen: To be honest, I never really saw why Sue would be attracted to Reed. He always seemed far more interested in his latest experiment than he did in her.

Sharon: She was supposed to have been infatuated with Reed since she was a young girl, maybe not even a teen (he was already in college). I guess some people never outgrow their first crushes.

Indeed, the Reed-Sue relationship, at least in the early days, always struck me a bit like the older man/younger woman scenario. She looked to him for guidance and to “take charge” of situations. This probably became less appealing to the general readership over the years. I don’t think they even mention this age difference at all now.

Doug: I find your (both of you) take on the Reed/Sue/Namor triangle interesting. Maybe it’s because as a male I always felt “threatened” by Namor. Although a monarch, he was brash, showy, flaunting of his strength… everything a guy who had a gal would fear. I guess sensing Reed was somewhat the underdog in that situation I always identified with him and not Namor. Perhaps as women, maybe you recall days when you or your girlfriends were infatuated with older men, or guys from a different school? Guys I knew were never digging that…

Sharon: The exotic outsider has always been an appealing option.

Karen: Doug, I had never thought about the Reed-Sue-Namor triangle in the way you mention. Reed just always seemed so focused on his work that his interest in Sue – particularly when she was asserting herself, like in these issues – just seemed more like possessiveness to me. But I can see where you are coming from. Namor would be very threatening to most guys. Although honestly, he would probably be a better lover than a husband! Another case where it is probably better to want than to have.

Doug: As one-hit wonder Aldo Nova once sang, “Life is just a fantasy, can you live this fantasy life?” Apparently Sue was trying…

But on to perhaps the crux of this story, the centerpiece around which all of this discussion has emanated – what do you think of Reed’s reaction to Franklin’s condition in the first 90% of the story, and then to his “dirty deed” at the conclusion of issue #141 (the zapping of Franklin with the anti-matter gun, as Karen stated earlier)?

My opinion is that Reed, in spite of his many faults (not enough quality time with Sue or Franklin, being inaccessible even to Ben and Johnny for extended periods, etc.), deeply loved his family – hence the intense mission to the Negative Zone which would place his own life at risk. Now, one could argue that this idea in itself was somewhat selfish, as his impending death would certainly leave Franklin’s condition in a potentially damaging state. Reed was never good at asking for help – but when you’re the smartest guy in the world that might just come with the territory. Reed was proactive here – the problem is perhaps not the mission, but the lack of communication to all parties concerned.

Karen: Reed’s absolute belief in himself, essentially to the exclusion of his family and their wishes, is probably his greatest failing. He was always making decisions for the team, and I think they typically accepted this because everything turned out all right. Well, except for Ben turning into a monster, but hey, other than that…but seriously, certainly in the early years he was portrayed as making the right choices. That began changing, particularly with this story. We still see this going on today in the books; he and Sue had another huge falling out over Reed’s work for the Pro-Registration forces in Civil War.

Sharon: During this timeframe (basically the issues leading up to #140-141), I liked that Reed was becoming impatient with the others; it made sense character-wise. Ben has always been presented as the salt of the earth—loyal, brave, and principled. But Sue and Johnny did not come off well during this timeframe; both were prone to whine, and Johnny, in particular, seemed like he’d lost a few brain cells since the ‘60s (was he inhaling?) I guess the post-Stan writers were trying to emphasize Johnny’s immaturity.

Doug: Earlier I’d mentioned that I felt Conway rushed the ending of #141 – I’d like to clarify that point somewhat. Karen liked the stark finality to it – I wanted something more than just everyone’s kneejerk reactions (which were all in character – I have no problem with that). Had I written this, there might have been a few panels with just facial reactions, pensiveness, numbness – and then the reaction. I know I’ve ripped on today’s decompressed stories ‘til the cows have come home (Midwestern expression :) ), but I wanted this scene to be a couple of pages longer. I’m not unhappy with the final panel, but just wanted a longer bridge to the departure of the rest of the team – Reed’s abandonment.

Sharon: The ending is effective if overly melodramatic (and the last panel is basically repeated for the splash for the next issue). But I know what you mean about wanting to see more here, Doug; the ending seems like a sort of fait accompli. For me, the emotional impact compensates for that.

Karen: There is some initial rejection of Reed by Johnny and Ben, but ultimately, they wind up sticking with Reed rather than Sue. It almost seems as though they really have no other options – Reed runs the show after all. I guess the thought I’m left with is this: if a man could lobotomize his own child –and yes, he was saving the world by doing so – what else might he be capable of? If you were his wife, would you ever be able to completely trust him again?

Sharon: I just assumed Reed would be working on a way to reverse Franklin’s condition…and that Sue of all people would know that.

Doug: Funny that you say Ben and Johnny felt like they might not have had other options – they’d done OK by themselves through the Torch’s series way back in Strange Tales. I’ve always wondered just what the FF was? Obviously a family, sure. But through all of the line-up changes over the years (and there are quite a few when you reflect), there were always two members who stayed. So was the sum greater than the parts, or were any of the parts when combined good enough to create the essence of the team?

In answer to the question relating to Reed’s behavior in using the anti-matter gun on Franklin: I am really torn on this! I have no doubt that Reed’s behavior throughout this two-part story is sincere – his anguish, sense of desperation – these emotions have him wrought with fear. I am also convinced that he was using every ounce of his magnificent brainpower to try to find an aid or cure for Franklin’s condition. I really want to believe that Reed acted out of overwhelming anxiety – a desperation to save Franklin’s life, yes – but also to save the world. Reed’s altruism toward humanity cannot be overlooked here. And let’s give him the benefit of the doubt as far as lobotomizing his son. Do we know that the condition brought on by the anti-matter gun was irreversible? Also, while the reaction of the rest of the team was not out of character, it certainly showed little to no faith in Reed’s track record. Yeah, I know that Ben’s condition was caused by Reed (as Karen pointed out earlier) – but Ben was outwardly a freak; the other three were no less changed in terms of what they could now do. So while Ben “got it the worst”, everyone was different. But I’ve believed Reed over the years every time he’s said that he never stops looking for a way to change Ben back permanently.

Karen: It also occurs to me that Gerry Conway was responsible for stripping away a lot of the innocence of comics; he split up Reed and Sue AND he killed Gwen Stacy.

Sharon: And he introduced the Punisher! No surprise Conway went on to produce Law and Order: Criminal Intent. ;)

Doug: I think a great topic for the future would be to debate the ages that followed the Silver Age, which is generally linked to Kirby’s departure from Marvel in 1970 (roughly the same time Mort Weisinger turned over the reins of the Superman family of titles at DC). Just when did the Bronze Age end, and couldn’t we argue that this new realism and social relevance was the ushering toward a Dark Age (not creatively, but topically)?

Family Matters: The Fantastic Four's Triumphs and Tribulations, part 3

2009-01-10T19:19:00.000-06:00

Part Three – Bringing Up Boys (part 1 of 2)

Fantastic Four #’s 140-41

November-December 1973

“Annihilus Revealed!”

“The End of the Fantastic Four!”

Gerry Conway, John Buscema, and Joe Sinnott

Doug: Now that we’ve visited the FF in two of the high points of not only the magazine, but in the lives of the characters within, it’s time to see how they handle adversity; adversity beyond even the maddest plot of Dr. Doom or the greatest threat posed by Galactus. How will they handle an immediate life-or-death situation directly involving one of their own, with no time for weighing options, no time for anything save definitive action?

Karen: This period of the FF’s history had a very strong effect on me. I was around nine years old when these issues came out and I recall being very disturbed by what seemed to be the disintegration of Marvel’s first family. Sue had already left Reed (back in issue #130) because she felt he was both neglecting his duties as a husband and father, AND treating her like an inferior. The team limped along without her, as Medusa came to fill-in for a time. It just felt really wrong. I had been reading the FF reprints in Marvel’s Greatest Comics at the same time and the contrast between the happy, stable family from the past and the fractured, miserable family here was shocking. As a child, it made me feel very insecure. So when Reed actually used his anti-matter gun to shut down Franklin’s mind, I remember being just stunned. This truly was one of those comics moments that had an impact on me.

Karen: I have to say that when I look at these issues now, it makes a lot of sense that Sue would leave Reed. Just as women in general in the 1970s were beginning to feel empowered, so was the FF’s female member. Sue’s desire to be seen as a full member of the team – not as “the wife” or “the sister” or “the mother” – was a sentiment felt by many women of the time. By incorporating this into the Fantastic Four, Marvel was again showing that they were a company that changed with the times.

Sharon: Marvel was playing catch up here. In the Silver Age, DC had a number of strong, fairly independent women, whether they were heroines (Batgirl, Saturn Girl, Crimson in the Secret Six) or supporting characters (Jean Loring, a lawyer). By contrast in the Silver Age Marvel had Sue or Jean Grey—who often had to be told how to use their powers--or secretaries like lovestruck Karen Page or Pepper Potts. Even warrior Sif was portrayed as more prone to being a hostage than Balder. Now, perhaps the Marvel depiction was more realistic for the ‘60s, but wow, Stan (and Roy) sure seemed to have a narrow view of women. This would change when other, younger (male) writers came aboard at Marvel, such as Conway and Steve Englehart; with more writers, we would get more than one or two points of view at Marvel. (And to Stan’s credit, he did produce female-centric superhero books in 1972 --The Cat, Shanna, and Night Nurse).

Karen: You’re right, the next wave of Marvel writers in the 70s did have a somewhat more enlightened view point. After all, that was the decade that gave us Chris Claremont, who seemed to actually favor female characters over male ones!

Doug: I think that Sue’s leaving was even a possibility at this point was reflective of the times – American television was dealing with the issue of divorce even in series as benign as The Brady Bunch! And ladies, you raise a great point about Sue’s (and others’) new independence – a far cry from the “Reed, what does it all mean?” days of FF Annual #3!

Karen: It’s amazing to go back to those early 60’s books and see just how much the women were little more than accessories to the men. Heck, on Avengers #1, everyone on the team got their name listed above the title –except the Wasp! And I recall some statement made in a later issue, basically comparing her to Rick Jones!

Doug: So to begin, issue #140 was a whole lot of Bronze Age entertainment!! Gerry Conway ably picked up where Roy Thomas had left off – the story is somewhat wordy (particularly by today’s standards), but every page is fraught with suspense and action. The characterization is very edgy, yet a realistic extension of everyone’s personalities. And the art team of John Buscema and Joe Sinnott – simply “Wow”. Buscema is a revered storyteller, but perhaps not often better than in this run and paired with Sinnott. We’ve remarked here as well as on the Avengers Assemble message boards that Sinnott could overpower a penciller – but it’s that consistency that Joe provided the FF through the years that makes it seem like one long narrative.

Sharon: I’m not a big fan of the Buscema and Sinnott team; to me, it’s like pairing Michelangelo with Norman Rockwell. Especially since here, on the FF, we get more Sinnott—who was now doing both finishes and inks—and less Buscema, who was just doing breakdowns for the FF—a far cry from Big John’s earlier, superlative work on, say, the Avengers or Sub-Mariner a few years earlier! But as you noted, Doug, Sinnott remained a constant on the FF and for many years he provided a cohesive look for the book.

Karen: These issues definitely had more of the Sinnott feel to me than Buscema, although it’s obviously John B’s work underneath it all.

Karen: One of the things I noticed right away is this was the time period with the “new look” Torch. Not only was he wearing his red costume, but he was now being drawn differently when aflame than Kirby had originally depicted him – we now saw more of Johnny’s features, including his hair, and he had a much more dynamic look, in my opinion.

Sharon: I get why the costume was changed (as an homage to the original Human Torch), but it looked too much like long johns! I was not fond of Medusa’s costume during this time, either; she looked clunky and chunky instead of sleek and sinuous and the costume didn’t help—I mean, buccaneer boots? Actually, now that I think of it, her costume is kind of similar to that of the 1940s character the Black Cat, what with the bare arms and legs, and yes—those boots!

Karen: Medusa’s costume certainly lacked imagination. I’d much prefer the green outfit she wore in Amazing Spider-Man 62 –as we discussed in a previous post.

Doug: Point taken about the Buscema/Sinnott pairing – but you can’t argue the dynamism of the page (any page). Can you imagine the Don Heck of 1973, or even George Tuska (who was much more dynamic/fluid than Heck) laying out these pages? As Sinnott added his outward touch to Kirby’s vibrant/violent/bombastic pencils, so he did for Buscema in this run.

Sharon: Buscema’s tableaux are always impressive—especially the scenes set in the Negative Zone.

Doug: Agatha Harkness just creeps me out – no matter where or when she shows up. How about that scene in the Avengers (ish #127, maybe?) where she’s training Wanda and makes an armchair spring to life? Weird…

Sharon: The issue you’re referring to is Avengers #133, which contains the scene in which Wanda makes a “chair walk like a man” under Agatha’s tutelage. Wanda began her studies with Agatha in Avengers #128 (published about a year after FF #140) but I never liked the concept of adding sorcery or mysticism to Wanda’s powers. As I’ve mentioned previously, I always preferred Wanda’s powers to be more scientifically based; if you look at her earlier appearances, her power could be said to induce changes in molecular structures or to cause chemical reactions (this theory was put forth by a fan in an Avengers letter column). But when Wanda started practicing witchcraft or magic, she became less like Chemical King and more like Zatanna. Marvel already had the Enchantress and Dr. Strange as Zatanna-analogues! As a result of this development, I felt Wanda’s powers were become less unique as they became more typically “witchlike.”

Karen: Kind of interesting that Ms. Harkness was involved with two Marvel women who were both trying to redefine themselves as individuals.

Doug: The origin of Annihilus was well conceived – not all that original if one considers such tales as Planet of the Apes, but executed positively nonetheless. Given that this is only his third appearance, he seems to carry the weight of a potential heavy hitter villain who might have a recurring role in FF bad guy-dom. Very interesting character – eye-catching as well.

Karen: It was a nice origin story, which to me had almost a “Twilight Zone” feel to it. The idea that Annihilus started as basically a sentient grasshopper is amusing. I like the way he was depicted here too, as frail and spindly.

Sharon: I felt sorry for the poor creature! Effective piece of characterization by Conway.

Doug: Conway consistently delivers foreshadowing and page-ending cliffhangers to keep the reader hooked. This method of storytelling was perfected by John Byrne, who ended up making it one of his faults if you want my opinion. But here Conway gives us just enough to make both of these issues page-turners.

Doug: Looking at these stories as self-contained, it’s interesting to see the dynamic on the team with Medusa. Conway does a nice job of separating her personality from the way Stan had handled Crystal years earlier. Although sisters, Stan, Roy, and now Gerry Conway have worked together over time to make them completely different people. The absence of any love interest between Medusa and her teammates also creates a dynamic new to the team, and that is NO dynamic. Medusa’s just kind of there – she’s an agitant, a nay-sayer, sort of a square peg in a round hole. Yet it works – her presence on the team only heightens the angst felt by all at Sue’s absence.

Karen: Was it just me, or in the later issues, did it seem like perhaps Medusa was developing an interest in Reed? Do you think that Gerry and Roy were considering having the two of them become a couple? Perhaps they were just seeing what the fan reaction was before really moving in that direction. How would that have altered the dynamics of the book – Reed off with Medusa, and Sue with Namor?

Sharon: Yes, during this time, Medusa was frequently drawn as hanging onto, or hovering over, Reed. Too bad nothing developed—I think it would have been interesting to see her with Reed, or even Ben or Johnny--but I guess a major part of her character is her unyielding, inviolate devotion to Black Bolt. Back when she was a member of the Frightful Four (and it’s been retconned that she was amnesiac during that time), she did express a fondness for the “handsome” Reed as she caressed his face with her hair! And Johnny seemed interested in her back in the Frightful Four days; both he and Reed acknowledged that she was an “extremely attractive female.”

Sharon: My reading of Medusa is that she represses her sexuality (reserves it for Black Bolt) but when she’s not in control – as when she’s been mind-controlled (by Maximus) or amnesiac – the defenses come down and she’s hot to trot. I see Medusa and Crystal as the two archetypes of female sexuality: virgin and whore (I don’t mean literally). But one is chaste, while the other is open to her sexual/romantic impulses. Also, talk about ironic imagery: Medusa, the reserved one, has all that resplendent hair (an the exaggerated female characteristic); while Crystal, the wild child, is normally shown with fettered hair--the famous headband, or the snoods she wears on occasion.

Karen: I never really knew what to make of Medusa’s relationship with Black Bolt. In fact, I think it was several years before I even knew they were a couple! At least now it’s much more obvious.

TO BE CONTINUED…

Family Matters: The Fantastic Four's Triumphs and Tribulations, Part 2

2009-01-03T10:00:00.000-06:00

Part Two – The Birth of Franklin Richards

Fantastic Four Annual #6, 1968

“Let There Be… Life!”

by Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, and Joe Sinnott

Doug: By 1968 the team of Lee/Kirby/Sinnott had reached its zenith, moving from one epic to another in the regular monthly Fantastic Four book – it was certainly deserving of its hype as The World’s Greatest Comic Magazine. And then along came the Annual for that year. I’ve read this story 3-4 times; the first time was only 5 years ago or so. But each time I re-read it, the scope of it, the grandeur, the characterization – this was truly a piece of literature that stretched the bounds of comic book fare of its day. The creators really outdid themselves with this issue – in my mind, it’s a story like “Let There Be… Life!” that really separated The House of Ideas from the Distinguished Competition.

Doug: The opening scene is just classic Lee/Kirby angst. I am amazed, particularly in reading the FF, how well Stan and Jack worked together. To think that around this time they were not on the best of terms, separated by many miles, and could turn out a scene like the opening 2 ½ pages. Blows my mind how well the pictures and words mesh.

Sharon: The art was astonishing and was perfectly complemented by the writing. To me, this was Kirby-Sinnott at their peak--you can start to see some coarsening of the art with the next issue (#81), or actually since #78 or so. Part of it may be due to Sinnott not making the characters so pretty (as he had tried to do previously)…though more than likely, Jack was not being as careful as usual, since it's been well documented he had been dissatisfied with Marvel for quite some time. There were a lot of things leading to Jack’s dissatisfaction (which we’ve discussed previously), but the straw seemed to break the camel's back was the recently completed Silver Surfer arc (#74-77), a few months earlier than this issue and Stan’s handing over of the new Surfer book to John Buscema. But the art here--just gorgeous and majestic.

Karen: I agree with you both, the art is spectacular. The cover is a beauty. Although I would say I detect more of Sinnott in this work than some of the older FF issues. Still, the book looks great - Annihilus’ ship, the Kirby crackle as they enter the Negative Zone, the edge of the Negative Zone, with its field of rocks –all of this leaves a strong impression. We even get yet another Kirby collage!

Doug: Although Reed had been to the Negative Zone in an earlier adventure, this issue marks the first appearance of the warlord/ruler Annihilus. Appearing first on the cover in a headshot, his actual first appearance in the interior of the book is startling, powerful, and terrifying (not only to the reader, but to the denizens of the Neg. Zone!).

Doug: I thought the scene where the vampire-gliding guy (for lack of a better description!) grabbed Reed and pulled him toward the asteroid was good – however, when Reed became magnetized, I was left wondering why a fellow so smart wouldn’t have just taken off his harness!

Doug: It was a little funny, given today’s patient confidentiality rules, that Crystal could just walk right into the hospital laboratory and get answers to her questions about Sue’s condition out of the doctor!

Sharon: In a couple of previous issues, Crystal had conferred with the doctors about Sue, so I guess they felt she could be trusted with seemingly confidential information like this!

Sharon: Speaking of Crystal, it bothered me as a kid in 1968 (when I first read this issue) that Crystal kept referring to Sue in Annual #6 as "Sue Storm.” Crystal had only known Sue as “Sue Richards”…and yep, this still bothers me today! Anyway, you can tell Kirby loved drawing Crystal; once she'd reunited with Johnny starting in #62, Kirby put her in as many panels as he could (except for #73, in which she did not appear at all). In fact, with the exception of #73, if you look at the span of issues from #72 through #85, she garnered more panel time than Sue did! And of course Crystal would join the FF in the next regular issue (#81) after this Annual.

Doug: The full reveal of Annihilus shows one of Kirby’s more inspired creations. This is one powerful, menacing, and UGLY dude! While it’s difficult to get a scale of his size initially, there is no doubt that he is going to provide one tough obstacle to whatever the FF needs later. Stan’s foreshadowing that it is the cosmic control rod, which rests on Annihilus’ chest, that will be that prize left me with a “can’t wait” feeling for the rest of the story.

Karen: An inspired design by Kirby. Even if he was beginning to tire of Marvel, you’d never know it based on the art in this annual. Annihilus just looks creepy – like the ultimate manifestation of all our fears of insects and bugs.

Sharon: He certainly scared me! One of the last great characters Kirby introduced in the FF-- well, along with (arguably) Franklin and a bit later, Torgo and Agatha Harkness.

Doug: In the prison scene, Annihilus displays his true brutality, not only in dropping Reed to the floor so easily – but the destruction of the remaining prisoners should not go unmentioned. Although it was certainly strongly implied a few years earlier that Galactus had decimated the life forms on innumerable planets, this in-your-face mass murder was somewhat bold for the Comics Code of the day!

Doug: When Reed was tossed into the large room where Ben and Johnny were being held, and then seeing Annihilus behind the glass enclosure with all of the control panels, I immediately thought of the X-Men’s Danger Room and Arcade’s Murder World. This is just a great scene, and largely because of Stan’s dialogue for Ben. I really love this period in the team’s history, and the characterization (although duplicated) has never been surpassed.

Sharon: Yes, the dialogue and characterizations were superb (and matched the flawless art, as mentioned). This was pure, unadulterated Ben, Reed and Johnny.

Karen: If anyone told me I’d feel a sense of menace from a giant sponge, or a giant boot, I’d laugh. But somehow, in this story, it works. Seeing Ben struggling with the crushing boot was a delight. More than any other Marvel hero, to me Ben has always exemplified the ideal of the hero who never gives up, even in the face of overwhelming odds.

Doug: Is there anyone more confident than Reed Richards? “The circuitry will have to be decoded… but I can do that later!” Yeah, right! I had a hard time getting through Algebra II/Trig, and he’s just going to decode some script from another universe about a device he’s only known of for an hour or so??

Karen: I always wondered who was smarter: Reed or the Professor from Gilligan’s Island. I mean, that dude made a radio out of coconuts! (I also thought it fitting that Alex Ross used the Professor (actor Russell Johnson) as the model for Reed in Marvels.)

Doug: The pages that follow contain a few minor twists and turns, but the suspense does manage to build without any real cliffhangers from page to page. The solution to the Negative Zone escape was reasonable and a nice set-up for future encounters with Annihilus.

Karen: For some reason, I really liked the press conference scene at the hospital. Back in the day, we were always reminded that the FF were treated like celebrities – people were interested in them and their lives just as if they were movie stars. I’ve always considered that a great take on the superhero genre.

Doug: The hospital scenes are so well-done. No action, but again – just great characterization and some funny lines here and there. The last panel of the story is a fitting end, and even though the dialogue is a little over the top, for the time it was written with all of the uncertainty in our nation it seems fitting.

Karen: One thing I noticed about this ish was practically every sentence ended in an exclamation point! I guess that was typical of the time, but it did seem a bit strained.

Sharon: Yes, exclamation points were de rigueur for the time for DC and Marvel. I remember when DC and Marvel started using periods a couple of years later- - well, that seemed strange to me! (And let’s not mention the strange, mercifully brief experiment –early ‘70s--when Marvel did not use any terminal punctuation at all for the dialogue, unless it was a question—then a question mark was used.)

Karen: But regardless, the final scenes in the hospital are moving. This issue really makes it clear that unlike other teams, the FF are a family. They are motivated out of love for each other, particularly in this situation.

Sharon: Sue looked like a serene, beatific Madonna…exquisite work by Kirby/Sinnott. But I felt Alicia's absence was a big hole; she'd always been shown to be close to Sue throughout the preceding years. As I have mentioned elsewhere, the addition of Crystal effectively reduced Alicia's role, which is a shame because it would have made dramatic sense to include Alicia here. A very beautiful, touching last panel, though.

Karen: That’s a great point, Sharon. Where the heck was Alicia? With all her history with the FF, it seems very strange indeed that she was not there.

Sharon: Franklin’s birth represents the first time (to my knowledge, anyway) that a mainstream comic book couple went through a pregnancy and had a child in anything even remotely resembled “real time.” Oh, sure, there was Aquaman and Mera, but Aquababy was conceived and born in the space of a single issue! Another example of Marvel’s realistic handling of its characters, which was ground-breaking in the ‘60s.

Family Matters: The Fantastic Four's Triumphs and Tribulations, part 1

2008-12-29T22:12:00.000-06:00

Part One – The Wedding of Reed and Sue

Fantastic Four Annual #3, 1965

“Bedlam at the Baxter Building!”

Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, and Vince Colletta

Doug: The story begins with a raging Doctor Doom at home in Latveria, railing about revenge against Reed Richards, the only man to defeat him. As a means of in turn humiliating Reed on his wedding day, the good Doctor seeks to bring forth an army of do-badders to bring terror and turmoil to the nuptials. Doom reaches for his “Emotion Charger” and begins to kindle hatred in already black hearts. This was not a weapon that we’d seen prior, nor do I think it’s been used since – am I wrong?

Karen: I think this was the first and last time it appeared. Regarding the plot though, if I recall correctly, I believe it was mentioned in the Ronin Ro book, Tales to Astonish, that Kirby intended for Doom’s ranting to be directed towards the Thing, and not Richards. The Thing had crushed Doom’s hands in issue 40 (not long before this annual), and if you look at those drawings, the way Doom is holding his hands up, he seems in pain, so that seems to verify it to some degree. However, it does seem like Stan took the more logical route, that Doom would be out to ruin Richards’ wedding, because he hates Richards.

Doug: Right away I noticed Colletta’s clean line over Kirby’s pencils, in spite of the fact that most panels have backgrounds! This issue had a very similar look to the Thor books those two collaborated on – it’s still Kirby action, but somewhat softer, as opposed to Joe Sinnott’s more vibrant embellishing.

Karen: While I find Colletta’s inking agreeable on Thor, I’d much prefer to see Sinnott’s smooth lines here. But still, the issue overall looks really nice.

Sharon: I really like Colletta's inks here, but this issue is kind of the last we see of the "old school” FF; after this, the book adopted a new look and really took off. With the very next issue in continuity- - #44- - Joe Sinnott starts his run as the regular inker and the book's look immediately moves from old-fashioned and soft focus (as here) to high tech and modern; it even becomes futuristic. The stories themselves reflect this change as well, becoming more and more cosmic as the FF embark on what many consider their greatest run--the Inhumans, the Silver Surfer, the Black Panther. Now, I think this progression would have occurred if Colletta or Chic Stone or whomever was the inker--obviously Jack was the mastermind of all the new characters and plots; and he had introduced Medusa months earlier in #36--but the Kirby-Sinnott pairing was certainly a matter of right place, right time; and it served as a very clear, distinct visual earmark of the new direction.

Doug: Stan’s dialoguing is pretty standard fare from this time period. Really, you could pick up a DC from 1965 and not find a lot of difference. The heroes still speak with bravado and in clichés. The women still seem dumb – “Reed, what does it mean?” “We’re under attack by some powerful unknown foe, darling!” Well, duh! What was your first clue??

Karen: It was 1965, so the women (where was the Scarlet Witch, or the Wasp?) were pretty useless. Marvel Girl contributes, but when the big fight occurs, Sue is back at the Baxter Building, no more useful than Alicia. As for the dialogue, I’m certainly no DC expert, but I think the Marvel folks always spoke with a little more panache.

Sharon: Really ridiculous that Sue is relegated to staying with Alicia. Thank goodness Sue would finally begin to show some backbone in the early 1970s!

Karen: I still wish she’d left Reed for Namor…but more on that in our later reviews!

Doug: Kirby really did a Perez-like job, cramming so many characters into one story. To list:

The Fantastic Four, Dr. Doom, Tony Stark, Patsy Walker and Hedy Wolfe,Puppet Master, Nick Fury and SHIELD, Red Ghost and his Super Apes, Professor X, Mole Man and the Subterraneans, The X-Men, Dr. Strange, The Mandarin, The Black Knight, Kang the Conqueror, The Mad Thinker’s Awesome Android, The Grey Gargoyle, Thor, The Super Skrull, Matt Murdock, Karen Page, and Foggy Nelson, Daredevil, Hydra, Iron Man, Captain America, Quicksilver, The Cobra, The Executioner, The Enchantress, Mr. Hyde, Hawkeye, Spider-Man, Electro, The Unicorn, The Melter, The Beetle, The Eel, The Mad Thinker, The Human Top, Attuma and his Atlantean army, The Watcher, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby.

NOTE: The cover contains even more characters that are not in the story, including the Sub-Mariner, Kid Colt, the Hulk, Sgt. Fury, the Wasp, Medusa, the Leader, the Red Skull, Loki, the Scarlet Witch, and the Wizard.

Sharon: Quite a list. The cover is magnificent, even if some characters did not appear in the story (as you noted, Doug). It's a cover that has been paid homage to many times; one such famous instance is Byrne's cover to FF # 236.

Sharon: Also, this issue would have been contemporaneous with Avengers #21, so this could be said to be the first time since Avengers #16 the old Avengers (at least, Thor and Iron Man) appeared with the new Avengers (even if Wanda was conspicuously MIA in the story, you have to assume she was there with the rest of the Kooky Quartet…in the Marvels version of this event, she’s actually shown at the wedding).

Doug: Yes, and this could be a slight continuity gaffe, as I recall that it was a big deal in Avengers Annual #1 when Thor and Iron Man returned – seemed at the time that none of the newbies had been with the veterans since Avengers #16.

Sharon: Here, Quicksilver says he's heard of the Human Top and promptly bests him with a single punch. But a few years later (Avengers #46) Pietro acts as if he'd never met the Human Top before (now known as Whirlwind, but still sporting the same costume as he did in FF Annual #3).

Doug: Do you suppose Roy Thomas hadn’t read FF Annual #3? Surely he had… Of course, with Roy always telling us how faulty his memory is, perhaps this has been an ongoing problem for him!

Karen: I first read this book as a small kid, in reprint form, and the sheer number of guest stars was over-whelming (and exciting)! The reader really got a sense of a thriving, interconnected universe. I really got a kick out of Stan and Jack’s cameo. Just another reason Marvel was always so much fun.

Sharon: It was always a treat to see Stan and Jack in a story!

Doug: I have one minor coloring complaint – I used the FF DVD-ROM as my resource, which contains scans of over 500 comics. So I’m assuming that the copy I read was indicative of an entire print run back in 1965. My complaint is the coloring on Kang’s outfit. Where it should be purple and green, it is instead orange, blue, and purple.

Karen: I used the DVD too, and heck, on the final page, Gabe Jones is purple!

Doug: Overall, this book is everything that Annuals were meant to be – a plain old FUN story, lots of good guys and bad guys beating each other’s brains in, and a happy ending. The book also contained three reprints from early in the FF’s career.

Karen: All in all, I agree with Doug: a very enjoyable, action-packed romp! I liked the sub-plot with the blind Daredevil driving the truck loaded with the explosive to the Hudson River – only to accidentally (and fortuitously) drop it right on top of Attuma and his army! We also get one of Kirby’s photo collages (could this be his first one?) when Reed travels with the Watcher.

Sharon: Kirby had been using photo collages here and there for about a year or so prior to this issue, most famously on the cover of FF #33. From what I’ve read he was enamored of this technique, though I must confess this reader didn't like it--I wanted to see his art, not photographs! And I am in good company; I’ve read Joe Sinnott felt the same way about Kirby. But who am I to begrudge the King the right to experiment with new techniques.

Doug: I can take or leave the Kirby collages. I recall the first time I saw one, in the pages of a Marvel’s Greatest Comics, that I thought it was a little odd, yet powerful at the same time. I think they work for scenes like “universe travel” or the Negative Zone. Kind of gimmicky and probably shouldn’t have been overused.

Karen: It’s fun to look at his collages and identify individual photos; I was reading through the Jack Kirby’s Fourth World Omnibus, vol.1, and noticed a lot of strange stuff in the numerous photo collages: bottles on a conveyor belt, skulls, the soles of shoes, buddhas, karyotypes, circuit boards…everything but the kitchen sink. All very trippy.

Doug: Now, some specific thoughts on the plot – Stan seemed to borrow from this story about a year later, in regard to the scene where the Watcher takes Reed away and gives him a device that will undo the damage that Doom had wrought. The Watcher will repeat this with Johnny in the glorious Galactus trilogy only a year after this story.

Sharon: Actually the Galactus trilogy was closer to four-six months later, that is if we go by issue release dates. This Annual was issued around the same time as FF #44 and a mere four months later Stan and Jack produced the Galactus trilogy, which started in FF #48 (concluding in #50).

Karen: I hadn’t thought about that before, but it’s true. The Watcher saved their bacon at least twice, if not more often. I think eventually he was put on trial by his fellow Watchers in the late 70s, in Captain Marvel, not long after Starlin left.

Doug: As for the wedding – of course it comes off, and quite nicely.

Sharon: Yes, but will someone please explain to me how, in the scene where Sue and Reed are actually pronounced man and wife, Professor X appears to be --standing? Sure, Sharon, there’s a simple explanation: would you believe the Professor’s supporting himself by his mental powers, with Jean throwing in some telekinetic help? Or that Dr. Strange is levitating him? Or that he is standing by means of less mystical methods, such as crutches?

Doug: Poor Charles probably had no choice but to stand – these were the days before the ADA!!

Doug: This story has all of the elements of a Silver Age Marvel: colorful characters, characterization done right so that readers new to any of the characters in the book might feel comfortable in giving another magazine a try-out, and an ending where good triumphs over evil with no body count left in the wake. Unfortunately, there isn’t a reveal on what Doom thought when his plan was undone – in fact, Reed never does figure out (or at least he doesn’t let on that he has) that Doom was behind it all.

Karen: Whoa, partner, Reed’s thought balloons on the next-to-last page show that he has concluded Doom was behind it all! Maybe he used the sub-atronic time displacer on you, so you forgot you read that page!

Doug: Gah!! On the fourth look, I see it as plain as the nose on Ben Grimm! Man, I looked at that panel with Hawkeye in it three times (3x!!!) and did not read the balloon, skipping to the panel at the top of the next page. Like you’ve said before, Karen, all of these words – just not used to it in comparison to today’s mags!

Thoughts on Jack Kirby and "Tales to Astonish" by Ronin Ro

2008-12-20T11:30:00.000-06:00

Karen: Recently, Doug and I read a book called “Tales to Astonish – Jack Kirby, Stan Lee, and the American Comic Book Revolution” by Ronin Ro. Sharon had read the book long ago and was the one to encourage us to read it. It chronicles Kirby’s life and also looks at the comic book industry over the years, with a fair chunk of time spent examining the early years of Marvel Comics. Now that we’ve all read it, we’ve decided to do a group review and discussion.

Doug: Many thanks to Sharon, and to the close-out bookseller from whom I bought this tome! It was a steal at $5!! What an interesting resource to have in my library.

Sharon: I had a suspicion you both would be interested in reading this…I’m so glad you picked it up! Since I’ve waxed poetic many times about the subject of Kirby and Marvel for the past couple of years on the Avengers Assembled boards, it’s exciting to see the two of you avail yourselves of the information in Ro’s book. His book provides a readable, basic introduction to that era.

Karen: While I had known some basic history in this area, this book really filled in a lot of details. There are quotes from many comics professionals and a lot of ‘behind the scenes’ stories. It’s a fun, quick read, despite some rather pedestrian writing by “Ronin Ro” (what a goofy pseudonym). My biggest complaint about the book itself is the lack of any annotation – no footnotes or even simple attribution of quotes in the text itself. There’s also no bibliography or index! From what I gather, many of the quotes in the book have been found in other sources. So it may be that the book is a hodge podge of previous works, all lumped together here.

Sharon: The lack of “academic annotation” is maddening, but he does list the names of people whom he says he consulted for the book…plus there’s a great list of source material, items no self-respecting comic historian or even plain ol’ fan should be without!

Doug: I have to tell you that as a history teacher and reader of many research-based books that I was academically offended by this book. Hear me: it’s an interesting read, a serious grabber! But I simply could not believe that any author would think it satisfactory to make such claims as were made, to offer quotes from particular people – some matter-of-fact, some to be honest quite damning toward other players – and never cite the source of the information. I’m serious – if Ro was a student in one of my college-bound classes and turned in a paper like this he would fail solely on his lack of referencing.

Doug: Saying that, I suppose I (we, if I can speak for my colleagues) am guilty of throwing my two cents into these discussions each week without directly citing sources for information that might not be common knowledge to our average reader. However, you the reader have the ability to leave me (us) a comment – I certainly feel I would owe an inquisitor the courtesy of revealing any source material I use in making these wonderful posits!

Doug: I especially liked that Ro began the story in the Golden Age, an era of comics history that I know too little about. One of the interesting facts about the Golden Age that continues to stand out for me is the proliferation of Jewish creators working in the industry: Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Jerry Siegel, Joe Shuster, Will Eisner, Gil Kane, and on and on. As a history teacher who focuses on Holocaust study, I just find this an interesting legacy – that these men have given me one of the loves of my life.

Karen: The focus is on Jack Kirby, and he appears to be a somewhat tragic (almost pathetic) figure. It’s clear that Kirby never felt like he got the recognition he deserved. Certainly one could argue this was true. It’s clear today that both he and Stan Lee – and not Lee alone – were responsible for the creation of the Marvel Universe, and that Kirby was far more involved in plotting stories than originally thought.

Karen: It does seem like Lee got most of the glory in the past, but in recent years he seems to be more willing to share credit for the characters with the artists. But back in the late 60’s, seeing Lee get so much attention obviously drove Kirby to prove he could stand on his own, and he left Marvel for DC, where he thought he’d have a chance to create his own universe with the New Gods. But I think his obsession with being successful on his own probably made it impossible for him to ever really succeed again.

Doug: Several weeks ago when we did the 1st Appearance post about the Incredible Hulk, I cited Origins of Marvel Comics as my source for the material. In that book, each origin story was introduced by Stan relating the formative conversations/presentations of these iconic Marvel characters. As Ro points out in this text (over and over), Stan was quick to take credit for just about every idea that became a cornerstone of the Marvel Universe. In fact, Jack is said to have been thoroughly disgusted at Stan’s boldness in allowing only his name to appear on the cover of all of the Origins series books. As Karen said, it was just another thorn in Jack’s side, another source of hurt feelings and long-festering animosity.

Karen: When I first started reading comics, Kirby was already at DC. From reading reprint titles like Marvel’s Greatest Comics, I knew who he was and that he was the artist behind all the great Marvel heroes. But I guess I didn’t feel any special reverence for him. In fact, when he returned to Marvel in the 70’s, I found myself unimpressed with most of his work. The primary reason was that his writing was terrible. There, I’ve said it. I know some Kirby fans love everything he did, but his writing was excruciating. I still feel annoyed when I think of his “Mad Bomb” story in Captain America. It was obvious to me, even at a young age, what Lee had brought to their collaborations.

Doug: I, too, came to know Kirby in the pages of Marvel’s Greatest Comics. At the time, Rich Buckler, then George Perez, was penciling the Fantastic Four. While there was no doubt that Kirby’s books were full of fast-paced action in the mighty Marvel manner, I didn’t think his rendering fit in with what I was then-accustomed to: Buckler, Perez, Sal Buscema, John Buscema (who interestingly enough, would have been down my list at this time), Ross Andru, Jim Aparo, Joe Staton, and Dave Cockrum. Kirby’s fingers were square (a point made in Ro’s book, specifically in discussion about Kirby near the end of his career), his facial expressions sometimes extreme. A few years later, when (as you say, Karen) Kirby was given Captain America, his style was so dramatically different that I could hardly stand it. I bought the Marvel Treasury Special Captain America’s Bicentennial Battles, but didn’t appreciate it. Now, many years removed, I can say that I have an appreciation for this material, and truly treasure it as representative of the twilight of the King’s career.

Karen: Despite my dislike of his writing, I feel badly for how Kirby was treated when he returned to Marvel. It seems like many of the younger staff had no respect for him, which is ludicrous when you consider he built the universe they were playing in. Granted, the man needed a good scripter to work with, but the kind of petty acts that occurred during his second tenure at Marvel are inexcusable. And of course, on top of all that was the problem with getting his original art returned, which became huge and the over-riding cause in Kirby’s later years.

Doug: As Sharon so aptly paid homage to men like Neal Adams (in our earlier series of X-Men discussions) for their work in obtaining creator rights/benefits, it is a shame that Kirby’s pages were stolen from Marvel and ultimately from him. Anyone who peruses the original art section on Ebay knows that it is difficult to find any Kirby page that sells for less than $800. Literally, he was deprived of a treasure worthy of a King’s ransom (how’s that for a pun??).

Karen: One of the most shocking things to me was that artists would steal other artists’ original art and sell it! Both John Verpoorten and Gil Kane are mentioned as having done this. How low can you get?

Doug: Yes… “snake” was a term that leapt to mind.

Karen: Despite adversity, Kirby was incredibly productive. It’s mind-blowing, especially in the context of today’s artists, that Kirby would produce 15 pages of artwork a week! I imagine most pros today don’t produce 15 pages in a month. Besides that, he was also designing characters all the time, and in the early days of Marvel, he was laying out a lot of the issues, and doing covers! When he finally got his original art back from Marvel, it’s shocking to think that the 2100 pages he did get back were only a small fraction of what he produced over the years.

Doug: Karen, your guess of 15 pages a month is not far off. As you know, a standard comic these days is 20 pages (although with the recent habit of making the former page one splash a recap page, new art drops to 19 pages), which comes out to five pages a week. And given how many books today have a tough time staying on any kind of regular shipping schedule, you are right that today’s pencillers can’t seem to get it done at even what would have been a snail’s pace for Kirby.

Karen: I’m left with mixed feelings after reading this book. While it’s interesting to learn about what was going on in the comics industry, it does shatter the illusion of the ‘happy’ Marvel bullpen. All those Marvel Bullpen Bulletin pages gave me the impression that Marvel was a wacky, fun place to work. But the more I read about what was going on, the more disabused I become of that notion. I’m sure there were good times but, like any workplace, it had its share of problems. I guess despite all this, I still find I can enjoy the stories from that era, even if I know better now about what was really going on behind the scenes.

Doug: I wonder if it was Stan who wrote the copy for the entire Bulletins pages. They certainly read with that Stan Lee bombasticism that we all knew and loved – but I doubt that, given all of his other responsibilities, he had the time to churn out that propaganda each month.

Sharon: According to Danny Fingeroth in Write Now! #18: yes, Stan wrote all the copy, at least up through 1972. For more details, see the great article by David Kasakove, "Finding Marvel's Voice: An Appreciation of Stan Lee's Bullpen Bulletins and Soapboxes.” I’d mentioned this article on the AA! boards not too long ago and it’s a fantastic read.

It's on My Shelf -- Maybe It Should Be on Yours!!

2008-12-12T18:05:00.000-06:00

Consider this the first in an ongoing series of book reviews spotlighting various comics histories. We’ll look at books about particular artists, companies, eras, etc. Sometimes each of your three hosts will fly solo – at other times we may chime in on another’s review (just because we can’t keep quiet about our love of this literary genre!). So buckle in, and maybe even start scaring up some loose change!

For the kick-off I thought we’d examine one of my favorite subjects: the life and work of Big John Buscema! A recent release paying homage to the master is Dr. Emilio Soltero’s John Buscema: A Life in Sketches (Pearl Press 2008; msrp $24.95). I purchased this tome just a few weeks ago at one of my local comic shop haunts.

I’ll have to say up front – it is difficult for me to give any sort of review of this book without comparing it to two previous biographies of Buscema: J. David Spurlock’s John Buscema Sketchbook (Vanguard Productions 2001; msrp for the signed/numbered hardcover $39.95) and the out-of-print The Art of John Buscema by Sal Quartuccio and Bob Keenan (Sal Q. Productions 1978).

Perhaps it’s because both Quartuccio and Spurlock included lengthy interviews with Big John, and there is additional material from and about Buscema in many of TwoMorrows Publishing’s various magazines (Comic Book Artist, Alter Ego, Back Issue, et al.), that I just find Dr. Soltero’s lack of text to leave his labor of love looking more like unfinished potential. Don’t get me wrong – despite what I thought was a bit of a hefty price tag, I am still happy to have purchased this book. It’s an extensive collection of John’s sketches (many from the backs of comic pages he was penciling as a hired assignment) and roughs that fits in the palms of my hands. But I have a confession to make – I’ve been pilfering scans of John’s artworks from Ebay dealers and other websites for years. I’ve amassed quite a digital collection of pencil/inks, roughs, covers, and finished pages – perhaps over 500 images. Soltero’s work (with no recently-discovered interview material) just wasn’t much different (nor compelling) from what I already own.

Soltero does include snippets of interviews with Sal Buscema, Neal Adams, Ernie Chan, Kevin Nowlan, Juan Gimenez, and even a comic convention panel featuring John Buscema responding to questions from Jim Shooter. But these are generally short in length, and don’t necessarily illuminate the accompanying illustrations. And while no one could argue the importance of Sal Buscema or Chan (or the authority of Adams), where are others who were John’s contemporaries – creators like Stan Lee, John Romita, Roy Thomas, Marie Severin, George Roussos, Tom Palmer, or Dan Adkins? Even researching and securing permission for use of existing interviews/tributes would have added to this book.

Spurlock’s book benefits from organizing Buscema’s sketches into chapters such as Warriors, Women, etc. Quartuccio’s interview covers many aspects of John’s career and really deals with then-contemporary work such as John’s assignment to Marvel’s Wizard of Oz adaptation and the How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way book. John’s art serves simply as examples of his prowess but does help to move the interview along. While Soltero certainly has no dearth of any type of Buscema’s work, it’s displayed pell-mell throughout the book with no real flow to it. Also of note is the frequent inclusion of rough panels and pages from the Conan story, Isle of Pirates Doom. This is a nice touch, but begins to wear on the reader after awhile – could the author not have secured similar panel/page samples from Buscema’s Fantastic Four or Avengers work, either of which there is a treasure trove of material?

But if you are a true fan who enjoys John’s renditions of major Marvel characters (and even a JLA rough to boot!), his Tarzan and Conan work, animals, women, and just generally mean-looking barbarians, wizards, and guys in suits, then this book should find it’s way to your library. I know I’ve come across as overtly negative toward my recent purchase. Please understand – there are few bigger Buscema fans than me. But because of that, I want more, more, and more about Big John. Where’s that long lost interview, that colleague who after all these years decided to tell a few new anecdotes? Perhaps that wasn’t at all Soltero’s intent with this book. He does, after all, remark in his introduction that in his opinion the Quartuccio and Spurlock books fell short in including the vast amount of sketchwork that he has been able to give the reader. So I guess it depends on what you’re after – if it’s a vast display of John’s beautiful renderings, then this book is for you. If it’s a lesser amount of drafting but with information about the man and his career, then I’d urge you to seek out the Spurlock book from Vanguard.

Sharon: I'll chime in here...I have the Spurlock book and as Doug says, it's quite informative about Big John's career and techniques and contains a great interview with John. Its only flaw, to my mind, is that it does not contain repros of his penciled costumed superheroes work in it; there's no Avengers, or the Surfer, or Namor, or... well, you get the idea. But it's a handy overall guide to Buscema and contains beautiful illustrations of non-superheroes. Okay, back to Doug...

Either way, you really can’t go wrong. I’ve said it before – there are few who could be called master in the four-color field, and John Buscema is near the top of any list of that nature.